Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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zeph
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Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Not to take anything away from Leclerc's thoroughly deserved victory today, but on reflection it does seem that today's race laid bare the distinctly more commercial "reality TV" nature underneath the sport.

It is clear that the story matters enough to influence the outcome. Previously, penalties were given for Leclerc's transgressions today, but him winning for Ferrari at Monza is the most "Feel Good" story of the year, so we're not gonna let that get in the way.

I'm not suggesting he should have been penalized, and I'm happy he won today, but it is clear that the sport has changed direction. We can expect to see more "American Idol"-like moments in the future.

Hamilton's reaction was telling.

mzivtins
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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I agree with Ham's comments, something along the lines of "different rules/level of penalty for the new f1 blood"

It is the fans that have asked for this for a long time coming "let them race" being echoed endlessly throughout the past few seasons.

I think the rules are seen as a way to enforce fairness rather than to punish mistakes or questionable driving, a good example is:

Did LEC squeeze HAM?
Yes, undeniably.
Penalty worthiness?
If HAM took damage/at a disadvantage due to the move: Yes
If HAM was able to continue in his attack window: No

I think the issuing of the "yellow card" was the perfect solution, good close racing with a bit of aggro results in the stewards being able to communicate via proxy, to the driver that its ok, but anymore and there will be a penalty.

In LEC's first words within 2minutes of being out of the car, he mentioned that some of his moves were too aggressive and at risk of penalties.

As fans of F1 if this style of rule enforcement continues, we are in such a good place, and so are the drivers.

Sentiments about F1 reality TV, i see what you mean, i would say its more... stewards taking into account the passion and emotions of the drivers behind the wheels, and that is a great thing to do.

zeph
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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mzivtins wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:08 am
Sentiments about F1 reality TV, i see what you mean, i would say its more... stewards taking into account the passion and emotions of the drivers behind the wheels, and that is a great thing to do.
My feeling is the stewards take into account the passion and emotions of the public more and more.

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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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dans79
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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zeph wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:44 pm
mzivtins wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:08 am
Sentiments about F1 reality TV, i see what you mean, i would say its more... stewards taking into account the passion and emotions of the drivers behind the wheels, and that is a great thing to do.
My feeling is the stewards take into account the passion and emotions of the public more and more.
and that's exactly why they should all be fired. What the fans want is irrelevant.
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Jolle
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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There isn't a great conspiracy in everything someone doesn't agree with. F1 isn't scripted drama. Else his Ferrari engine would have died on the last lap, with him getting a ride to Parc ferme by Hamilton etc etc..

This is just old fashion Monza, where Ferrari is a little bit special, like they always been there.

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:06 pm
There isn't a great conspiracy in everything someone doesn't agree with. F1 isn't scripted drama. Else his Ferrari engine would have died on the last lap, with him getting a ride to Parc ferme by Hamilton etc etc..

This is just old fashion Monza, where Ferrari is a little bit special, like they always been there.
It's awfully convenient, that what's considered clean and safe racing is only announced to the public after the race that's had several very questionable incidents.
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TAG
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:06 pm
This is just old fashion Monza, where Ferrari is a little bit special, like they always been there.
The sport sees Ferrari as a little bit special in everything, it's why they get more money just for showing up than the entire operating budget of some F1 teams.

The point here isn't that Ferrari is special, the point is that in recent year, specifically beginning with the on track shenanigans of drivers like Verstappen, the sport has allowed their rules to bend based on popular opinion.

At this rate by 2021 we'll be having a helmet throw of the race fan poll or worse... "Fan Boost".
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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TAG wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:58 pm
The point here isn't that Ferrari is special, the point is that in recent year, specifically beginning with the on track shenanigans of drivers like Verstappen, the sport has allowed their rules to bend based on popular opinion.

At this rate by 2021 we'll be having a helmet throw of the race fan poll or worse... "Fan Boost".
And it's only going to get worse. Eventually we will end up nascar style physical altercations between drivers (Brazil 2018), an if left un-checked eventually fatalities.
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zeph
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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TAG wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:58 pm
The point here isn't that Ferrari is special, the point is that in recent year, specifically beginning with the on track shenanigans of drivers like Verstappen, the sport has allowed their rules to bend based on popular opinion.

At this rate by 2021 we'll be having a helmet throw of the race fan poll or worse... "Fan Boost".
This. Exactly.

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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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I think they are finding and trying a new balance between hard racing and nasty moves. The pitstop from Leclerc a couple of races ago when he didn’t get a penalty, they admitted they made the wrong call. And now with the black/white flag, a refound measure to let not every race be ending at the stewards.

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:55 pm
and that's exactly why they should all be fired. What the fans want is irrelevant.
they should all be fired, they're terrible at their job. Where do they come from anyway? - the cosy little FIA club, great social skills and confidence, no clue about objectivity

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FrukostScones
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:34 pm
I think they are finding and trying a new balance between hard racing and nasty moves. The pitstop from Leclerc a couple of races ago when he didn’t get a penalty, they admitted they made the wrong call. And now with the black/white flag, a refound measure to let not every race be ending at the stewards.
if anything they made a mockery of the black and white flag already.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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To be honest I was hugely surprised about some of the decisions that were made and the explanation behind them.

Someone mentioned Verstappen. But lets not forget Verstappen was penalized for exactly the same infringement on Bottas on Monza, and I think rightfully so. Running someone out of room at the entry of a corner is not OK as it is easily avoidable.

The new guidance seems to be no harm no foul. But I think there is harm. In f1 you get very little chances on a pass, and it requires management of engine temperatures, electrical boost, tires to set it up. And if you get sent down the escape road it means starting all over again, even if there is no contact.

And besides a contact criterium would be rewarding or penalizing people on the reaction of the other. Essentially vettel got a harsher punishment because Gasly had a better judgement of the situation than Stroll. At least be honest and don’t call it a penalty for unsafe rejoining, but a penalty for crashing while rejoining, if that is what you are going to penalize.

I don’t think it is necessarily American/liberty. In the Cart series they were very strict about blocking. And I would agree, there is more entertainment value in people having a proper fight and passing, than seeing cars hinder each other as much as possible.

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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:34 pm
I think they are finding and trying a new balance between hard racing and nasty moves. The pitstop from Leclerc a couple of races ago when he didn’t get a penalty, they admitted they made the wrong call. And now with the black/white flag, a refound measure to let not every race be ending at the stewards.
If pushing someone off the track, in a braking zone, isn't nasty, then that's a pretty high bar. If Hamilton hadn't bailed out onto the grass then LeClerc would've gone over his front tyre and into the air. That's maybe fine at Monza, but suppose that's a track with walls everywhere? As to Stewards deciding the race, if drivers don't want that then perhaps they shouldn't commit obvious penalties? Others have managed it in the past.

If they want to allow drivers a free cheat or two each race, that's fine. But write it into the rules. Right now, the drivers are given a rulebook that is no longer relevant to F1. What actions that are specifically banned in the rules are now no longer really banned? If I cheat in several different ways, do I get a black-and-white flag for each transgression (so I can push someone off the track, and I can cut a chicane, and I can move in the braking zone, and I can move twice, and I can chop their front wing off on the straight, etc, etc as long as I only do each thing once per race)?

Is it track/manufacturer specific? Do Mercedes get to cheat as much as they want at Hockenheim? Red Bull at their Ring? Do Force Stroll get a free pass in Canada? Is it just the drivers who don't have to follow the rules or can manufacturers put a V-12 engine in the car and get to use for a race?

I know that any sport that relies on spectators for money has, by necessity, morphed into entertainment rather than sport. But most sports maintain the pretence of actually being a sport rather than a simple popularity contest. If it had been Russel leading Verstappen rather than LeClerc leading Hamilton and committing all these breaches, do we all honestly think that he'd not have received a penalty?