FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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DChemTech
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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outsid3r wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:35 pm
The FIA aren't stupid. If they released such a statement they are probably anticipated that there were going to be clowns trying to lead a protest with the intent of revealing what the settlement was. But I do understand Merc making this move, and have everyone looking into something which happened last year rather than focusing on what is going on at the moment.

I like how everyone praises Merc for the (very very borderline) DAS system but is totally convinced that Ferrari was doing something wrong last year for a statement that reveals absolutely nothing!
There is a huge difference between DAS and this. Mercedes sought an opinion from the FIA while implementing the system. They are open about the presence of the system, too. Other teams can evaluate the likely gains made by the system. If they expect gains from the DAS system that can be classified as active aero or suspension, they are free to raise these concerns and protest the legality of DAS. FIA will then have to make an evaluation and disclose why or why not DAS is legal (which does not mean disclosing the functioning/technical aspects of the system at all, if they were obscure). All of this transparency is wholly absent in case of the Ferrari PU.

Restomaniac
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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If every other PU supplier and every team not supplied by Ferrari have done this as a collective (when does that ever happen) then I think it’s safe to assume that they have a fair idea what’s been going on.

The key question is Mercedes. What do they hope to gain? They already have the 2019 WCC and positions 1-2 in the WDC in their pockets.

Look at the other teams reaction to DAS and McLaren, SAT, etc reactions to the Pink W10. They have asked the question and got an answer that although they don’t like they have (or will) move on.

The FIA and Ferrari have sewn this up into a nice little secret. You don’t keep secrets unless there is something to hide!

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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KeiKo403 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:08 pm
IF (intentionally big 'if' there) Ferrari were top nop have points deducted/exclusion from the championship, what would that mean for Alfa and Haas who also used the same PU?
It's the fact that the "agreement" ( should be punishment?) is secret is what is bugging the other teams.. Whether or not they actually found anything no one else will ever know. Sad state of affairs. Back to old days of Ferrari international assistance? .
.. ... ... ... ...

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dren
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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I agree. It's pretty shady. Surely the FIA expected this blow back, even with their strategic press statement timing.
Honda!

Restomaniac
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:56 pm
KeiKo403 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:08 pm
IF (intentionally big 'if' there) Ferrari were top nop have points deducted/exclusion from the championship, what would that mean for Alfa and Haas who also used the same PU?
It's the fact that the "agreement" ( should be punishment?) is secret is what is bugging the other teams.. Whether or not they actually found anything no one else will ever know. Sad state of affairs. Back to old days of Ferrari international assistance? .
This is my problem with it. If they hadn’t found anything there wouldn’t be a need for this agreement. The fact this has happened surely means that they have found something?

Restomaniac
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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dren wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:01 pm
I agree. It's pretty shady. Surely the FIA expected this blow back, even with their strategic press statement timing.
Even more shady when you consider they’ve added a 2nd fuel flow sensor in that the teams cannot get data from. That kind of thing isn’t done for the sake of it!

Grutte Pier
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff says: «The whole thing is a huge mess. It is not okay what Ferrari did, but even worse how the FIA ​​treats it. All other teams are upset. »

Red Bull racing advisor Dr. Helmut Marko: «The behavior of the FIA ​​is the real scandal. We should actually have instructed Red Bull Racing team boss Christian Horner to sue for $ 24 million in prize money that we would have been awarded for second place in the constructors' championship if Ferrari had been punished accordingly. It is unbelievable what is written of an agreement. »

https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/ ... sauer.html

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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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dren wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:01 pm
I agree. It's pretty shady. Surely the FIA expected this blow back, even with their strategic press statement timing.
I’m slightly cynical but I’m sure the FIA would have planned out their route ‘post fallout’, I doubt this will get the 7 teams anywhere, FIA/Ferrari will dance through it.
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AMG.Tzan
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Wouldn't call burning more fuel than the fuel flow meter allows an invention really! It goes outside the "spirit of the rules" let's say! Burning oil for example was something totally different...the FIA never thought that burning oil would be something and nowhere did they state you need to burn a specified amount of oil!

In Ferrari's case though the FIA clearly states that you must burn 100kg/h of fuel...if they've found a way around that then that's a loophole in the regulations first and foremost and secondly you're clearly cheating what the rules clearly state: 100kg/h of fuel flow!

Question: Has all this to do with Ferrari cheating the fuel flow meter or anything else??
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

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TAG
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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But remember, this year when Ferrari are much slower on the straights, it's because they added drag.
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matt_b
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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TAG wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:22 pm
But remember, this year when Ferrari are much slower on the straights, it's because they added drag.
=D> :lol: =D>

Restomaniac
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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TAG wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:22 pm
But remember, this year when Ferrari are much slower on the straights, it's because they added drag.
It is rather convenient isn’t it.

The FIA issue a TD at the US GP and from then on.
Ferrari suddenly lose their advantage at the US GP and from then on.
The FIA take a Honda PU and a Ferrari PU to do investigations.
The FIA introduce a 2nd fuel flow sensor that the teams cannot get data from during pre-season testing
Ferrari during pre-season testing seem to be well down on pace.
The FIA release a statement in which they say they and Ferrari have a secret agreement with regard to the investigation.

Have I missed anything?

Mandrake
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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The FIA settlement / agreement smells like the FIA realized they are unable to properly monitor the legality of a PU (and probably other stuff on cars as well). I could imagine Ferrari did something with their PU that was borderline legal and would have been banned for 20/21 onwards anyways. Also the synthetic fuel research that Ferrari has to do......maybe they already added synthetic fuel somewhere in the process, so technically they never exceeded the fuel flow for "fossil fuel"

But as the FIA was unable to properly assess and monitor this, instead of making a big fuss about it they make sure Ferrari supports the closing of loopholes with the FIA and uses their advances in synthetic fuel research to the greater good of F1.

Totally subjective opinion......what do you think?

Restomaniac
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Mandrake wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:42 pm
The FIA settlement / agreement smells like the FIA realized they are unable to properly monitor the legality of a PU (and probably other stuff on cars as well). I could imagine Ferrari did something with their PU that was borderline legal and would have been banned for 20/21 onwards anyways. Also the synthetic fuel research that Ferrari has to do......maybe they already added synthetic fuel somewhere in the process, so technically they never exceeded the fuel flow for "fossil fuel"

But as the FIA was unable to properly assess and monitor this, instead of making a big fuss about it they make sure Ferrari supports the closing of loopholes with the FIA and uses their advances in synthetic fuel research to the greater good of F1.

Totally subjective opinion......what do you think?
Were it not for Ferrari’s vanishing pace from the US GP on I could easily buy that.

Mandrake
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Restomaniac wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:38 pm
TAG wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:22 pm
But remember, this year when Ferrari are much slower on the straights, it's because they added drag.
It is rather convenient isn’t it.

The FIA issue a TD at the US GP and from then on.
Ferrari suddenly lose their advantage at the US GP and from then on.
The FIA take a Honda PU and a Ferrari PU to do investigations.
The FIA introduce a 2nd fuel flow sensor that the teams cannot get data from during pre-season testing
Ferrari during pre-season testing seem to be well down on pace.
The FIA release a statement in which they say they and Ferrari have a secret agreement with regard to the investigation.

Have I missed anything?
They seized an engine at the end of the season. After the TD the engine was supposedly less powerful (Ferrari said they added DF), so the assumption here is that the engine was made compliant. Why should Ferrari give them an engine pre-TD spec to analyse? How would the FIA with their limited testing possibilities find out if the engine is illegal? How would they be able to determine if a potential illegal device was ever used in a race?