Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

[TimW]

How about letting the fastest lap in the sprint race decide pole position? And award more point for the sprint race.

So you could do a late pit stop, sacrifice your sprint race result, to get pole position. Or preserve tires in the sprint to be able to do a decent lap layer on, or go fully for the sprint race result but start a bit lower on the grid for the main race.

Would make it incomprehensible for laymen viewers though

[jjn9128]

How about letting the fastest lap in the sprint race decide pole position? And award more point for the sprint race.

So you could do a late pit stop, sacrifice your sprint race result, to get pole position. Or preserve tires in the sprint to be able to do a decent lap layer on, or go fully for the sprint race result but start a bit lower on the grid for the main race.

Would make it incomprehensible for laymen viewers though

Qualifying sprints during THE SPRINT. Like one of the cycling events where they just go round in circles then sprint for a bit

[RZS10]

Are we going down the path of most ridiculous suggestions? Because i got one.

Decide pole by drivers trying to achieve a randomly generated (still sensible) laptime during THE SPRINT™, closest driver gets the F1 PRECISION POLE™ powered by 3M™ Sharpshooter™.

[Just_a_fan]

The real problem is listening to people who think that motor racing is anything other than finding, and rewarding, the fastest car / driver combination over a set course.

As soon as "the show" is raised, you know you're going down the rabbit hole to anywhere but motor racing.

[hUirEYExbN]

Are we going down the path of most ridiculous suggestions? Because i got one.

Decide pole by drivers trying to achieve a randomly generated (still sensible) laptime during THE SPRINT™, closest driver gets the F1 PRECISION POLE™ powered by 3M™ Sharpshooter™.

I quite like this and I think it would fit well in the less serious and more novelty motor sport events. Extreme E and stuff like that would be ideal candidates.

[El Scorchio]

Are we going down the path of most ridiculous suggestions? Because i got one.

Decide pole by drivers trying to achieve a randomly generated (still sensible) laptime during THE SPRINT™, closest driver gets the F1 PRECISION POLE™ powered by 3M™ Sharpshooter™.

I quite like this and I think it would fit well in the less serious and more novelty motor sport events. Extreme E and stuff like that would be ideal candidates.

Just out of interest, I wonder how close they can get to a peak time (to the nearest 10th of a second) with a) the delta visible to them, and b) without.

I can only imagine with it, they should all be very close, but without it it could vary wildly. Although I'm sure at least one team would come up with a secret way of communicating the delta to their drivers. As an aside I happened to rewatch some footage of the race where they allegedly caught out all the teams that had figured out the start procedure in 1999 and were giving their drivers an unfair edge by delaying the lights. Quite funny.

[Andres125sx]

I´ll post here my own reflections about F1, sorry to bore you

Contrary to first decades, now F1 is no longer a competition between manufacturers where, if none is interested, they don´t bother. Now there are huge economical interests with lots of companies investing millions in advertising, and they need a return for the investment wich put´s FIA in a compromise, contrary to first decades, now they NEED a significant audience

IMHO problem started when they assumed asking for a fee to watch the races (PPV)was a good idea. They assumed the fall in audience would be compensated with the revenue they got from PPV. And probably that was the case in first years, so they did continue with same approach, increasing fees both for audience and for tracks to host a race.

But looks like they didn´t consider (or maybe they did, but that was not their problem as they were only worried by their own/short term income) PPV means audience is limited to those who already enjoy it, but none who is not interested will pay to watch it, what means there will never be new audience, or it will be negligible.

Obviously without new fans any competition is done. How many people do any of you know who like F1 under 20-25 years old? I can count them with one hand. Maybe the problem will not show in 5-10 or even 20 years, but it´s a matter of time.

They´ve been compensating this problem increasing ticket prices, asking for money even for tests, increasing fees for tracks, etc. but obviously this is not any solution, they´re only feeding the snowball effect


Now they´re trying a different approach, a change in the rulebook. I like the cost cap, but sincerely I don´t think that´s the root of the problem. Dominating teams have always exist in F1. But I take it, I think it will improve both the racing and the show.

Another approach is the change in aerodynamics. I like this one much better (I´ve been asking for this change for decades!), but again, even if it works as expected, if they contiune asking for those high prices both to fans and hosters, they will continue building a huge wall new fans will never be interested to climb.

It´s not a matter of attracting young people, but attracting new fans. Obviously young people are the main target as once they get hooked, they will be fans for many decades. That´s what is saving current F1 IMO, all those fans who got hooked in the 70-90´s are still watching, but we get older and older and without a new fanbase the sport is done. But again, we got hooked because we could watch F1 in TV or attend some GPs because it was affordable. Now young people can´t as prices are now prohibitive, so basically there are no new fans (or almost) for maybe 2-3 decades (since F1 is PPV), and that puts F1 in a critical situation.

Let see if the new rules for next season are worth the effort, I´m sure we current fans will be very pleased with the change, but it will be enough to attract new audience ready to pay current fees? We´ll see

[SiLo]

Exactly. There is enough sponsorship money coming in to enable free-to-view coverage, even if just the race itself. But we're living in the aftermath of Bernie's deals which were only about short term financial gain for him and his mates.

It's the same with sports generally, the likes of Sky buy up the rights to sports - with the aim of dragging people to pay them a fortune for a subscription - and it just kills the ground level viewership.

I like cricket, rugby, F1. All of them in the UK are now locked behind Sky's doors. I'm not prepared to pay Sky £500/year to watch a few events that might take my fancy. Certainly, F1 isn't worth £500/year. And I don't have enough spare time, nor would SWMBO put up with it, to watch £500/year worth of Sky sport.

I listen to cricket on the radio - a long tradition and one that works well, and I watch rugby matches that are shown on the terrestrial services. Even managed to see some international cricket recently that Sky had apparently allowed to be shown for some reason.

I do wonder if the sponsors think they get value for money from their deals - if a sport is seen by only a few hundred thousand people rather than many millions, why do they bother sponsoring it?

So I watch F1 using online streams via VPN when I can find reliable streams. Or I go and do something else. After 40+ years of watching F1, it's a damning indictment of the situation that F1 has got itself in.

if youre paying for a VPN I recommend F1TV. I pay £59.99 per season, and can watch every session plus F2 on it, can chromecast from my phone as well.

How do pay? I was under the impression that it would see a UK card / bank account and say "no".

If I remember correctly, I did it via my iPhone on the app store, after changing my location to the US and just doing it there. Now it just renews without me having to do anything. All I do is make sure I connect to a US server via my VPN when I open the app. I do the same if I open it from a browser on my PC as well.

I THINK that is how I did it, I wish I had written it down now. Initially I tried going through the website, but found buying the sub through the Apple app store by changing region was far easier.

You might not even need to change region if you're connected to a VPN actually.

[Just_a_fan]

It´s not a matter of attracting young people, but attracting new fans. Obviously young people are the main target as once they get hooked, they will be fans for many decades. That´s what is saving current F1 IMO, all those fans who got hooked in the 70-90´s are still watching, but we get older and older and without a new fanbase the sport is done. But again, we got hooked because we could watch F1 in TV or attend some GPs because it was affordable. Now young people can´t as prices are now prohibitive, so basically there are no new fans (or almost) for maybe 2-3 decades (since F1 is PPV), and that puts F1 in a critical situation.

A good point about the age of fans. Let's not forget that it was Bernie that prevented much of the move to online presence etc. His attitude was, and he actually said it publicly, that the young don't spend enough money and therefore aren't of interest. He was looking to attract sponsors that make high-end luxury goods e.g. Rolex, not stuff made for the masses. He wanted F1 to be an exclusive, luxury sport. And, for someone who was otherwise so very good at doing deals, he forgot the future. He forgot that today's kids are tomorrows buyers of luxury goods. Get them in the sport today and they'll be an audience for adverts for years to come.

But no, Bernie did deals that made money yesterday, not tomorrow. And the result is that tomorrow is looking quite bleak for F1 so far as attracting the future generation is concerned.

[Big Tea]

It´s not a matter of attracting young people, but attracting new fans. Obviously young people are the main target as once they get hooked, they will be fans for many decades. That´s what is saving current F1 IMO, all those fans who got hooked in the 70-90´s are still watching, but we get older and older and without a new fanbase the sport is done. But again, we got hooked because we could watch F1 in TV or attend some GPs because it was affordable. Now young people can´t as prices are now prohibitive, so basically there are no new fans (or almost) for maybe 2-3 decades (since F1 is PPV), and that puts F1 in a critical situation.

A good point about the age of fans. Let's not forget that it was Bernie that prevented much of the move to online presence etc. His attitude was, and he actually said it publicly, that the young don't spend enough money and therefore aren't of interest. He was looking to attract sponsors that make high-end luxury goods e.g. Rolex, not stuff made for the masses. He wanted F1 to be an exclusive, luxury sport. And, for someone who was otherwise so very good at doing deals, he forgot the future. He forgot that today's kids are tomorrows buyers of luxury goods. Get them in the sport today and they'll be an audience for adverts for years to come.

But no, Bernie did deals that made money yesterday, not tomorrow. And the result is that tomorrow is looking quite bleak for F1 so far as attracting the future generation is concerned.

I have absolutely no proof of course, but I assume young fans are introduced to the sport by their parents or older siblings, = older fans, who do spend the money to 'take the kids to Silverstone' or where ever.

If there is no big event to look back on, many are going to look at the option of a grand for a family day out, or a small increase and very much cheaper when you are there for a week away.

Kids dont spend money, but most pubs have play areas and sell coke.

[Just_a_fan]

I have absolutely no proof of course, but I assume young fans are introduced to the sport by their parents or older siblings, = older fans, who do spend the money to 'take the kids to Silverstone' or where ever.

If there is no big event to look back on, many are going to look at the option of a grand for a family day out, or a small increase and very much cheaper when you are there for a week away.

Kids dont spend money, but most pubs have play areas and sell coke.

Sunday at Silverstone next year, family of 2 adults and two children (that's 11-15yo) is £507 just to get in the gate. Children under 11 are free so that's ok. But getting a child under 11 to spend an entire day at Silverstone (because realistically you need to get there early to have any chance of finding somewhere decent in the general admission areas) is going to be trying. Go for a general admission with dedicated terrace area for the same family and it's £675 for the Sunday. The cheapest grandstand seats for that same family is £810 for the Sunday.

By the time you've paid for parking - that's £60 for the Sunday (£35 if you use the park and ride), and bought some merchandise, you're knocking on the door of £1000 to watch the GP.

It amazes me every year that Silverstone is full for the Grands Prix. I don't believe there will be many families doing it - whenever I've been there haven't been many kids present.

As for TV viewing, unless a parent is interested in F1, they're unlikely to pay Sky for the F1 package which means the child won't just happen upon F1 whilst channel surfing, in the way that used to be possible when it was free to watch on any TV.

[Big Tea]

I have absolutely no proof of course, but I assume young fans are introduced to the sport by their parents or older siblings, = older fans, who do spend the money to 'take the kids to Silverstone' or where ever.

If there is no big event to look back on, many are going to look at the option of a grand for a family day out, or a small increase and very much cheaper when you are there for a week away.

Kids dont spend money, but most pubs have play areas and sell coke.

Sunday at Silverstone next year, family of 2 adults and two children (that's 11-15yo) is £507 just to get in the gate. Children under 11 are free so that's ok. But getting a child under 11 to spend an entire day at Silverstone (because realistically you need to get there early to have any chance of finding somewhere decent in the general admission areas) is going to be trying. Go for a general admission with dedicated terrace area for the same family and it's £675 for the Sunday. The cheapest grandstand seats for that same family is £810 for the Sunday.

By the time you've paid for parking - that's £60 for the Sunday (£35 if you use the park and ride), and bought some merchandise, you're knocking on the door of £1000 to watch the GP.

It amazes me every year that Silverstone is full for the Grands Prix. I don't believe there will be many families doing it - whenever I've been there haven't been many kids present.

As for TV viewing, unless a parent is interested in F1, they're unlikely to pay Sky for the F1 package which means the child won't just happen upon F1 whilst channel surfing, in the way that used to be possible when it was free to watch on any TV.

So this is what I am saying. If you had not been before, would you speculatively fork out that cash (and lets face it effort if you have kids and need to get there) 'Just in case you like it' ?

I know there is a craze of 'being there' at big events, but I dont know how many times this will work without the interest. I see a decreasing spiral

[Just_a_fan]

I have absolutely no proof of course, but I assume young fans are introduced to the sport by their parents or older siblings, = older fans, who do spend the money to 'take the kids to Silverstone' or where ever.

If there is no big event to look back on, many are going to look at the option of a grand for a family day out, or a small increase and very much cheaper when you are there for a week away.

Kids dont spend money, but most pubs have play areas and sell coke.

Sunday at Silverstone next year, family of 2 adults and two children (that's 11-15yo) is £507 just to get in the gate. Children under 11 are free so that's ok. But getting a child under 11 to spend an entire day at Silverstone (because realistically you need to get there early to have any chance of finding somewhere decent in the general admission areas) is going to be trying. Go for a general admission with dedicated terrace area for the same family and it's £675 for the Sunday. The cheapest grandstand seats for that same family is £810 for the Sunday.

By the time you've paid for parking - that's £60 for the Sunday (£35 if you use the park and ride), and bought some merchandise, you're knocking on the door of £1000 to watch the GP.

It amazes me every year that Silverstone is full for the Grands Prix. I don't believe there will be many families doing it - whenever I've been there haven't been many kids present.

As for TV viewing, unless a parent is interested in F1, they're unlikely to pay Sky for the F1 package which means the child won't just happen upon F1 whilst channel surfing, in the way that used to be possible when it was free to watch on any TV.

So this is what I am saying. If you had not been before, would you speculatively fork out that cash (and lets face it effort if you have kids and need to get there) 'Just in case you like it' ?

I know there is a craze of 'being there' at big events, but I dont know how many times this will work without the interest. I see a decreasing spiral

Well someone might take a single child, perhaps, as a treat - maybe the child badgers the parents and so Dad (most likely) takes them.

Funnily enough, my Dad went a few years ago on a group deal - a bus load of them went for race day. Had a seat (not covered). He's been a sometime follower of F1 since the Mansell days (and before then I think but I can certainly remember him cheering on Mansell when F1 was on the TV on a Sunday). Not an ardent fan, however. Said he was glad he went but wouldn't do it again. A long day sitting there with not much to do other than the race. Spent most of it reading a book once he'd had an initial wander about. That's probably what most people would be like other than the hardcore fans - the types that turn up wearing team clothing, etc.. It's an expensive day out unless it's really your one passion.

As I mentioned elsewhere (in a race thread, I think), every other Sunday morning during the summer, a group of us go clay pigeon shooting. We usually go to the pub afterwards. If that coincides with a race weekend, I might look at the race on something like a live text feed e.g. the BBC, but I generally don't leave my friends at the pub to rush home and try to get a live stream going to watch the race. After 40 years of watching F1 pretty religiously - the early starts for the Australia / Japan races, etc., going to FP sessions at Silverstone, have been to the race at Silverstone but it's been a long while now - I'm becoming less bothered by having to watch every moment. It's just not worth the effort and it certainly isn't worth spending serious money on it.

I'd rather spend £50 on shooting and a few beers with friends. So how likely is it that someone with no prior interest is going to fork out serious money on the off chance that they'll enjoy it? Spa '21, anyone? Great advert that, eh?

I'm still interested in the sport, but not enough for it to get in the way of other things these days.

Maybe I'm just a grumpy 50 year old.

[notsofast]

Perhaps Liberty Media should go for broke and make a big bet on the US. Casual US viewers will not watch F1 races in foreign countries at odd hours. But they may watch a short "American season" of, say, 5 races in a row that all start at a decent time. Especially if those races are the ones that decide the championship. For example, Brazil, then Montreal, then Miami, then some new US venue, and the final race of the season at COTA with the WDC receiving the trophy on the spot. All five races to start at 1:30pm EDT so that viewers miss only one football game instead of two. That start time would be pretty good for European viewers as well.

[Stu]

Are we going down the path of most ridiculous suggestions? Because i got one.

Decide pole by drivers trying to achieve a randomly generated (still sensible) laptime during THE SPRINT™, closest driver gets the F1 PRECISION POLE™ powered by 3M™ Sharpshooter™.

I have a radical idea…
Single lap qualifying on a Friday (Q1,Q2,Q3) as now; cars not in parc ferme conditions. Engine MUST be that used in the previous race.
Saturday afternoon features one at a time multi-lap qualifying (3-4 laps, timed from pit-lane exit to pit-lane entry); average lap time closest to single-lap time set the previous day is on pole. Cars to go in reverse order of qualifying from previous day. Cars to be in parc ferme conditions for whole of Saturday.
Points awarded to fastest 6 on Friday (old school -10,6,4,3,2,1); points awarded to fastest 10 on Saturday (10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1), points also awarded to best 4 qualifiers on delta time (5,3,2,1).
Complex? Maybe.
Great for sponsor opportunities? Definitely!
Strategic? You bet!
Chances of max points (25) to same driver? Slim!!!
Points throughout qualifying process are similar to those available in the race.

Lots of action through the weekend, points available throughout weekend. Potential gains & losses for teams/drivers. Potential random/mixed up grid for race!