Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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StuckInFirst
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Joined: 17 Sep 2021, 08:50

Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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Personally I see F1 as nothing more than Entertainment, the tech developed has been around for a while and is NOT very road related (NO street car needs to discharge ev F1 quickly nor is braking regenerative charging new, etc, F1 tech never has been very related to road car tech), hybrid motors, paddle-shift, extreme engine control working with transmission and brakes, etc, all been around for at least a decade.

So to me The Sprint races are not any new entertainment really, drivers likely to hesitate in a risk pass to save car for main race OR these days $$, so sprint races are just a subset of the typical processional leaders and followers F1 race, sadly, not enuf passing or fighting, imo, FIA penalties if any wheel knocking - pampered teams and drivers races !!

and yes the $$ (budget and winnings) is what makes the teams to ONLY fight in a race and be risk avoiding otherwise !!

yes I have been watching F1 since before 1988, yes have seen lots of tech and yes lots of TOO boring F1 races.

BUT, we have had some exciting races, even this year kinda, but F1/teams TOO frightened to really fight in a race, especially sprint races.

Yes FIA/Teams TOO FRIGHTEN TO HAVE, reverse grid races, OR front 10 in rear, OR random races with random grids OR even intentionally artificial RAIN/wet races, etc - winning teams ALWAYS want to keep it the same !!

To me the easiest way to have exciting races (no more artificial than is DRS!!) is to have either random (no one knows until the main race - can it kept as a secret--doubtful) reverse grid races OR randomly chosen random grid races via a last min algorithm ran 5 mis before grid line up !!

Both would be wonderfully exciting and i personally think drivers will love it - and F$%K the stats - who cares !!?? I LOVE '*' next to things !! ;)

What say you about making an abstract not important to world F1 race MUCH more entertaining ??

PS: and yes the F1 sound can be very much improved too, too frightened to even make that better, same same seems what the teams and winners want NOT real new formula or simpler/cheaper non hybrid engines - I said 'sound' as NOISE to some cultures is an UGLY sound, and music is sound and current engines are more 'noise' than lovely harmonic V-8/10/12 musical 'sound'. (yes 180 degree V-6 DO sound better than them 90 degree V-8's, but not as nice as 180 degree engines of yesteryear !)

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jjn9128
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Re: Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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Sprint races could have worked better 15 years ago when the cars were actually sprint cars, but they're now pseudo-endurance machines and it just doesn't make sense. I say stick with the existing format if the belief is that the 2022 cars will deliver on the promise of more exciting races.
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Stu
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Re: Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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They could always take a leaf out the rallycross book and have 3 (for example) joker laps during which they are free to cut chicanes for a whole lap, most tracks have added artificial chicanes which keep the original track intact (for use as an escape road, for instance). This would add a tactical level to the racing, do you use them to make places at the start of a GP or gamble and wait? It would also offer an alternative to incidences such as we saw at Monza on Sunday. A total gimmick, but would add to the entertainment!!
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Big Tea
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Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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Or on line votes to improve or demote drivers on the grid, or introduce a safety car once a million people have entered.
I think it was fine as it was, with the exception of huge cars.
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El Scorchio
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Re: Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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Random grids would be a disaster. If for example randomly Hamilton was drawn first and Verstappen 20th it could decide the championship. Completely unfair, unsatisfactory, and can you imagine the conspiracy theories?!

Likewise with team/driver battles all down the grid.

notsofast
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Joined: 10 Oct 2012, 02:56

Re: Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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Everything is researched, developed, and optimized before the season even starts. If you have the fastest car, then you have the fastest car. And if the best driver is in the fastest car, then it's pretty much game over. The close battle between two drivers this season is an anomaly in modern F1.

Any kind of "entertainment" will start to look fake pretty quickly. If F1 wants to have more spectacle on Fridays, they could make FP2 more of a competition. For example, allow the cars with the top 10 times to skip Q1. Or, if they really want a sprint race, then turn Q3 into a very short sprint race. Something like 4 laps.

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Unf
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Re: Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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Doing things like reversing is totally rubbish. If you did the best work to build a car etc. you don't deserve to be punished. I totally don't understand why we don't have a points for qualification - if you are fast on 1 lap, imo it is something that should be awarded, why not?

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Stu
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Re: Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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Reverse grids for sprint races (if you even want sprint races) could only work if points were awarded for qualifying.
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Stu
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Re: Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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Big Tea wrote:
18 Sep 2021, 10:36
I think it was fine as it was, with the exception of huge cars.
Nailed it! I wonder why it isn’t that obvious to the FIA. I would go for a maximum plan area for the cars (max & min length and width) and stipulate maximum overhangs front and rear.
A maximum length of 4.5 metres sounds about right. It would ‘force’ a more upright driving position (which would be a good safety move by the FIA).
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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RZS10
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Re: Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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Stu wrote:
18 Sep 2021, 10:03
They could always take a leaf out the rallycross book and have 3 (for example) joker laps during which they are free to cut chicanes for a whole lap, most tracks have added artificial chicanes which keep the original track intact (for use as an escape road, for instance). This would add a tactical level to the racing, do you use them to make places at the start of a GP or gamble and wait? It would also offer an alternative to incidences such as we saw at Monza on Sunday. A total gimmick, but would add to the entertainment!!
I don't think the FIA/Masi would want cars leaving out the T1/T2 chicane in Monza for example, going straight at what? 350kph? Rejoining the other cars which are still just doing 200kph, crossing each others' lines.
Something like that would most likely just give faster cars a free pass anyways because the car they would overtake would be too far away to counter the move on the next lap.

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adrianjordan
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Joined: 28 Feb 2010, 11:34
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Re: Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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I think whatever they do with Sprint Races, they need to be independent of the main Grand Prix.

I have no issue with the format used on Sprint weekends so far (though I could quite happily lose the contentious Lewis and Max crashes lol) BUT I think Sprint would be much more entertaining if it didn't affect the Sunday grid. I think we'd have seen more of an effort from Lewis to get past Lando in the Sprint if it wasn't for the risk of affecting the Grand Prix itself.

Maybe then we could have a longer FP1 on Friday morning. Quali Friday afternoon. FP2 on Saturday morning and then Sprint on Saturday afternoon with a grid decided based on fastest lap in practice or some such thing. Then Sunday stays as it is.
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DiogoBrand
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Joined: 14 May 2015, 19:02
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Re: Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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notsofast wrote:
18 Sep 2021, 11:49
Everything is researched, developed, and optimized before the season even starts. If you have the fastest car, then you have the fastest car. And if the best driver is in the fastest car, then it's pretty much game over. The close battle between two drivers this season is an anomaly in modern F1.

Any kind of "entertainment" will start to look fake pretty quickly. If F1 wants to have more spectacle on Fridays, they could make FP2 more of a competition. For example, allow the cars with the top 10 times to skip Q1. Or, if they really want a sprint race, then turn Q3 into a very short sprint race. Something like 4 laps.
You nailed it. Take DRS for example, to me it only makes overtakes less exciting, because if the car behind is faster there's no chance for the driver in front to defend and for us to see an actual fight for position, so they just get a free overtake.
People need to understand that it is impossible to make every minute of every race exciting, the exciting bits only exist because you have the boring parts to compare to.
Unf wrote:
18 Sep 2021, 11:57
Doing things like reversing is totally rubbish. If you did the best work to build a car etc. you don't deserve to be punished. I totally don't understand why we don't have a points for qualification - if you are fast on 1 lap, imo it is something that should be awarded, why not?
You're right but not completely IMO. It would probably be better to introduce some negative feedback loops into F1 (like the more you win, the harder it is to keep winning) as opposite to now, where the more you win, the more likely it is for you to keep winning, it just needs to be done in elegant ways. To me the wind tunnel restrictions for example may be a good start.
But penalizing teams at race weekends for qualifying well would be horrendous, there would be teams willingly not qualifying because you're just as likely to start in 1st if you qualify dead last as you are if you get pole in qualifying.

notsofast
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Joined: 10 Oct 2012, 02:56

Re: Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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Teams shouldn't be rewarded multiple years in a row for a single invention. If cars were to become "open source" at the end of each season, it would force the winning teams to invent something new if they want to win again next season. (Credit: @Zynerji proposed it a few years ago in another thread.)

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DiogoBrand
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Re: Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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notsofast wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 00:53
Teams shouldn't be rewarded multiple years in a row for a single invention. If cars were to become "open source" at the end of each season, it would force the winning teams to invent something new if they want to win again next season. (Credit: @Zynerji proposed it a few years ago in another thread.)
I'd like to see that but it would create a massive issue with Return of Investment. Teams probably wouldn't be willing to invest in F1 if their IP would just be shared with everyone at the end of the year.
Best case scenario it would have the opposite effect with manufacturers finding it easier to join F1 because they'd have last year's winning car as a base to start, but it would probably have the first of the possible outcomes I've mentioned.

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Big Tea
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Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

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adrianjordan wrote:
18 Sep 2021, 23:31
I think whatever they do with Sprint Races, they need to be independent of the main Grand Prix.

I have no issue with the format used on Sprint weekends so far (though I could quite happily lose the contentious Lewis and Max crashes lol) BUT I think Sprint would be much more entertaining if it didn't affect the Sunday grid. I think we'd have seen more of an effort from Lewis to get past Lando in the Sprint if it wasn't for the risk of affecting the Grand Prix itself.

Maybe then we could have a longer FP1 on Friday morning. Quali Friday afternoon. FP2 on Saturday morning and then Sprint on Saturday afternoon with a grid decided based on fastest lap in practice or some such thing. Then Sunday stays as it is.
The timing of the sprint is critical too. It is so important not to damage the car there must be times when the very cars that would benefit from taking a chance are afraid to do it as it would mess up their main race where the real points are down to 10th. One or two points are not worth starting from the back or not being ready in time for the main race
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