Porsche Taycan

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FW17
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Re: Porsche Taycan

Post by FW17 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:20 am

Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:40 pm
alexx_88 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:12 am
not that impressive when you factor in what a car startup from California was able to do.
Sorry but... Tesla a car startup from California? Ok, technically yes, but I don´t think any company founded by same person as Paypal or SpaceX should really be defined as a startup

Startups are usually small companies with few money to invest on R&D. Elon Musk might be missing lots of things, but money is far from one of them. He´s fighting against NASA with SpaceX! :wtf: Sure he can fight agains Porsche too :P

But they are like 4 years behind model S in terms of range, efficiency, and even grunt off the line

Forget the last one but, they should have managed better range and efficiency from a 95kwh battery

digitalrurouni
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Re: Porsche Taycan

Post by digitalrurouni » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:18 pm

And I definitely think Tesla is a startup. They have never built cars. Period. For them to achieve what they have achieved is more impressive than what Porsche has done with their EV.

SmallSoldier
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Re: Porsche Taycan

Post by SmallSoldier » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:35 pm

Andres125sx wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:23 pm
With the technology out there now for several years, I would have expected someone like Porsche to bring a car that would be unrivaled, especially in terms of performance.

Not considering the looks, they seem to have brought a car that doesn’t surpass the Tesla cars... Performance, Features and Range are the 3 aspects that not only a Porsche (but also a higher price tag) should have been “Top of the Class” and that’s not what we are getting.
Maybe you´re using Tesla numbers as a reference for standard cars, but they´re not. Ignore Tesla, according to the first site I´ve seen providing quarter mile numbers, GT3 depending if manual or automatic takes 11.5 or 11.1 seconds. This Taycan takes 11.1 or 10.8 seconds
To me that´s "top of the class", even if more manufacturers are matching those numbers.

Actually, according to this site the only Porche to go below 11 seconds before this Taycan is the Turbo model, on any of its versions (10.9/10.6), but that´s around 50% more expensive than GT3 or Taycan, so a different category. And Taycan S is beating one of those glorified Turbos! :shock:
It’s an EV sports car... There is one mass produced car to compare it to and it’s the Tesla Model S.


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santos
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Re: Porsche Taycan

Post by santos » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:54 pm

digitalrurouni wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:18 pm
And I definitely think Tesla is a startup. They have never built cars. Period. For them to achieve what they have achieved is more impressive than what Porsche has done with their EV.
How many years can a startup keep being called a startup?
Reminds me when someone say "oh he died so young", and the person was 50...

digitalrurouni
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Re: Porsche Taycan

Post by digitalrurouni » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:43 pm

santos wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:54 pm
digitalrurouni wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:18 pm
And I definitely think Tesla is a startup. They have never built cars. Period. For them to achieve what they have achieved is more impressive than what Porsche has done with their EV.
How many years can a startup keep being called a startup?
Reminds me when someone say "oh he died so young", and the person was 50...
They are not a startup anymore. I agree with that. Compared to a legacy company like Porsche making cars for what 80 years? They are a startup :D

Andres125sx
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Re: Porsche Taycan

Post by Andres125sx » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:45 pm

digitalrurouni wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:18 pm
And I definitely think Tesla is a startup. They have never built cars. Period. For them to achieve what they have achieved is more impressive than what Porsche has done with their EV.
Agree, same with SpaceX (NASA and US department of defense are their customers, with 12 Billions under contratct), and they didn´t have any previous experience in aerospace industry either.

It´s impressive what huge amounts of money can achieve, isn´t it? :mrgreen:
Last edited by Andres125sx on Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Andres125sx
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Re: Porsche Taycan

Post by Andres125sx » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:47 pm

SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:35 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:23 pm
With the technology out there now for several years, I would have expected someone like Porsche to bring a car that would be unrivaled, especially in terms of performance.

Not considering the looks, they seem to have brought a car that doesn’t surpass the Tesla cars... Performance, Features and Range are the 3 aspects that not only a Porsche (but also a higher price tag) should have been “Top of the Class” and that’s not what we are getting.
Maybe you´re using Tesla numbers as a reference for standard cars, but they´re not. Ignore Tesla, according to the first site I´ve seen providing quarter mile numbers, GT3 depending if manual or automatic takes 11.5 or 11.1 seconds. This Taycan takes 11.1 or 10.8 seconds
To me that´s "top of the class", even if more manufacturers are matching those numbers.

Actually, according to this site the only Porche to go below 11 seconds before this Taycan is the Turbo model, on any of its versions (10.9/10.6), but that´s around 50% more expensive than GT3 or Taycan, so a different category. And Taycan S is beating one of those glorified Turbos! :shock:
It’s an EV sports car... There is one mass produced car to compare it to and it’s the Tesla Model S.


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After 80 years producing sports cars their very first EV is their second fastest car ever. What else did you expect?

There are mass produced sports ICE cars too, and Porsche has never been the fastest, any reason their first EV should be?

digitalrurouni
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Re: Porsche Taycan

Post by digitalrurouni » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:01 pm

Andres125sx wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:45 pm
digitalrurouni wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:18 pm
And I definitely think Tesla is a startup. They have never built cars. Period. For them to achieve what they have achieved is more impressive than what Porsche has done with their EV.
Agree, same with SpaceX (NASA and US department of defense are their customers, with 12 Billions under contratct), and they didn´t have any previous experience in aerospace industry either.

It´s impressive what huge amounts of money can achieve, isn´t it? :mrgreen:
Huge amounts of money and a certain propensity to bend the rules/regulations/laws. Pushing the envelope basically. A lot of people hate Elon and his achievements and his companies are a testament to what he has achieved. Granted Tesla has had its share of controversies with respect to build quality and even unfortunate deaths of Autopilot users. Majority of the deaths were caused by user negligence and not really understanding what Autopilot means.

Andres125sx
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Re: Porsche Taycan

Post by Andres125sx » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:25 pm

digitalrurouni wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:01 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:45 pm
digitalrurouni wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:18 pm
And I definitely think Tesla is a startup. They have never built cars. Period. For them to achieve what they have achieved is more impressive than what Porsche has done with their EV.
Agree, same with SpaceX (NASA and US department of defense are their customers, with 12 Billions under contratct), and they didn´t have any previous experience in aerospace industry either.

It´s impressive what huge amounts of money can achieve, isn´t it? :mrgreen:
Huge amounts of money and a certain propensity to bend the rules/regulations/laws. Pushing the envelope basically. A lot of people hate Elon and his achievements and his companies are a testament to what he has achieved. Granted Tesla has had its share of controversies with respect to build quality and even unfortunate deaths of Autopilot users. Majority of the deaths were caused by user negligence and not really understanding what Autopilot means.
Sure, my intention was not to criticize Elon Musk, I really admire him. But we can´t ignore he´s a multimilionaire with so much money none of his companies can be considered a startup in the traditional meaning of the word.

But at least he´s trying some different approaches to normal multimillionaires, Tesla, SolarCity, Hyperloop, Open AI (not sure if I should include this one here, AI is scary IMHO)... Sure he´s just doing business to earn money, but at the same time he´s trying to push in the right direction.


To stop the OT here :oops: , I was just praising Elon Musk and Tesla in an attempt to concede the necessary credit to Porsche and its Taycan, they´re not fightint some garagist as the term startup may sugest, Tesla is a really big company with huge R&D department and one of the biggest fortunes in the planet behind

Gatecrasher
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Re: Porsche Taycan

Post by Gatecrasher » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:47 pm

Top of the range Model S comes in at $120k.

Based on Q1 earnings Tesla runs at 15% operating loss vs a 15% gross margin profit for Porsche.

So your $120k car should really cost $150k if Tesla could find enough people with deep pockets to fill their factories. Tesla is giving consumers a deal at the expense of investors.

RZS10
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Re: Porsche Taycan

Post by RZS10 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:03 pm

I wonder if anyone will do some hotlaps around a variety of circuits to see how it really compares to the other cars in the Porsche range - of course it accelerates well but it will be really interesting to see what kind of magic the engineers have pulled off when it comes to handling.

(And yes, i know it's a different type of car sitting between 911 and the Panamera with new tech so it's not really comparable but still ...)

They should know how to do it given that the 918 was the fastest car from 'the holy trinity' on a lot of tracks thanks to the best hybrid implementation and despite being heavier and having less power.

Top speed isn't anything special, the only Porsches that are slower are the Cayenne (non S and Diesels) and Macan (non S) ... but top speed is mostly of interest to german customers anyways, and traffic usually doesn't allow more than 240ish kph so...

On the nords the Taycan 'Turbo S' is as quick as a last gen (981) 85000€ top of the range Cayman GT4 ... probably slower than all 911 models and Panamera Turbo (S), faster than all other Panamera, Cayenne, Macan and 718 models ... so in relation to the other cars it probably sits exactly where it is in the lineup.

Sadly most Porsches end up being low speed inner city poser verhicles and there the Taycan lacks the thing that usually catches the attention of everyone ... the sound ... which might be a good thing if you wanna enjoy your coffee (or w/e) in peace :mrgreen:

Brake Horse Power
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Re: Porsche Taycan

Post by Brake Horse Power » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:55 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:15 am
It's funny how many car buyers don't have a clue about the oily parts. There was a survey of BMW 1-series buyers in the UK a few years ago. Something like 80% thought the car was front wheel drive. The 1-series is of course rear wheel drive (except for one version in China) and BMW make much of the dynamics of rear wheel drive. All of it wasted on the typical car buyer who looks at the badge, the price and the toys. :lol: :lol:
Actually the new 1 series is front wheel drive :lol:

Just_a_fan
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Re: Porsche Taycan

Post by Just_a_fan » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:23 pm

Brake Horse Power wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:55 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:15 am
It's funny how many car buyers don't have a clue about the oily parts. There was a survey of BMW 1-series buyers in the UK a few years ago. Something like 80% thought the car was front wheel drive. The 1-series is of course rear wheel drive (except for one version in China) and BMW make much of the dynamics of rear wheel drive. All of it wasted on the typical car buyer who looks at the badge, the price and the toys. :lol: :lol:
Actually the new 1 series is front wheel drive :lol:
The new one might be, but since debut to now, it's been a rear wheel drive.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Andres125sx
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Re: Porsche Taycan

Post by Andres125sx » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:26 am

Gatecrasher wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:47 pm
Top of the range Model S comes in at $120k.

Based on Q1 earnings Tesla runs at 15% operating loss vs a 15% gross margin profit for Porsche.

So your $120k car should really cost $150k if Tesla could find enough people with deep pockets to fill their factories. Tesla is giving consumers a deal at the expense of investors.
It's a long term investment, they're trying to position Tesla as a luxury brand so when the tech is mature enough they'll make huge profit thanks to current investment, even if right now it's not profitable

FW17
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Re: Porsche Taycan

Post by FW17 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:48 am

Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:26 am
Gatecrasher wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:47 pm
Top of the range Model S comes in at $120k.

Based on Q1 earnings Tesla runs at 15% operating loss vs a 15% gross margin profit for Porsche.

So your $120k car should really cost $150k if Tesla could find enough people with deep pockets to fill their factories. Tesla is giving consumers a deal at the expense of investors.
It's a long term investment, they're trying to position Tesla as a luxury brand so when the tech is mature enough they'll make huge profit thanks to current investment, even if right now it's not profitable
Tesla makes luxury cars, but their buys are not from the luxury segment. The buyers are people who did not mind paying more money for a product that they consider a differentiator. In most cases double than what they would have paid for a ICE

Your typical model s buyer is not from the same segment as those looking for a S class, A8 or a 7 series and model 3 buyers are not 3 series buyers.

Taycan might be a great car, but does nothing better than what exists in the market. It does not cater to the group that sees the car as a differentiator, but rather to their existing clientele.