Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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AJI
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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strad wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:40 am
Ain't no 3/4 ton Hybrid truck. :wink:
maybe she needs to upgrade to something bigger?
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https://www.hino.com.au/300/hybrid/

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Phil
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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AJI wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:27 am
Phil wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:23 am
... A quick stop for fuel will cost 5 minutes of time, but no later than that and you will be back on track. An EV just cant do that, yet....
Petrol wasn't exactly easy to get when the automobile was first introduced either. Was there range anxiety then?
The world has progressed since then. Back when the automobile was introduced, the alternative was what? Walking? Horses?
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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AJI
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Phil wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:04 am
AJI wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:27 am
Phil wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:23 am
... A quick stop for fuel will cost 5 minutes of time, but no later than that and you will be back on track. An EV just cant do that, yet....
Petrol wasn't exactly easy to get when the automobile was first introduced either. Was there range anxiety then?
The world has progressed since then. Back when the automobile was introduced, the alternative was what? Walking? Horses?
Phil, with respect, are you suggesting that the world won't continue to progress, and that battery technology will stagnate and EV recharging will never become as easy and fast as taking 5 minutes to fill up with liquid fuel?

Just to be clear here I'm a pure bred petrol head, I literally stink of some form of hydrocarbon every other day of the week, but for some reason I find myself in the devil's advocate position on the EV and AV topics..? The part I really don't understand is the push-back. EV and hybrid and AV are already here. The tech is only going to improve and in a very short time the EAV will be the norm.
I'd rather discuss the timeline and general acceptance of the inevitable...

Greg Locock
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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That Hino has a 2 kWh battery. That'd give you about 5 miles of EV range. (OK, I know why they do it, but I'd like to see the cost versus the non hybrid version).

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Phil
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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AJI, I think you really haven't read my reply carefully there, Mate. I never suggested as much.

Phil wrote:To me; owning a car is a bit of freedom. The freedom to be able to get to any place at any time. A quick stop for fuel will cost 5 minutes of time, but no later than that and you will be back on track. An EV just cant do that, yet.

An optimal solution for most, would be to have two vehicles; an EV for those daily commutes and another one for everything else. Given the cost involved, that isn't really an option for most. So i guess for most of us, it’s a game of waiting until the EV reaches the level of convenience of petrol cars do.
In context, I was replying to Just_a_fan who was suggesting that EVs are suitable for the majority of the car buying population, now, today.

I get the point that with a bit of re-thinking, an EV could very well fit into most peoples lives if they are happily willing to give up the freedom of those journeys where a petrol engined car will happily get there without as much as a 2nd thought while the EV won't. Will the technology improve to the point that will become a non-issue? Yes, eventually. Are we there today? No we aren't, even if 95% of the mileage we do are short-distance travels. It's the 5% that makes it a deal breaker. That, and the cost of an EV.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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AJI
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Phil wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:45 am
AJI, I think you really haven't read my reply carefully there, Mate. I never suggested as much.

Phil wrote:To me; owning a car is a bit of freedom. The freedom to be able to get to any place at any time. A quick stop for fuel will cost 5 minutes of time, but no later than that and you will be back on track. An EV just cant do that, yet.

An optimal solution for most, would be to have two vehicles; an EV for those daily commutes and another one for everything else. Given the cost involved, that isn't really an option for most. So i guess for most of us, it’s a game of waiting until the EV reaches the level of convenience of petrol cars do.
In context, I was replying to Just_a_fan who was suggesting that EVs are suitable for the majority of the car buying population, now, today.

I get the point that with a bit of re-thinking, an EV could very well fit into most peoples lives if they are happily willing to give up the freedom of those journeys where a petrol engined car will happily get there without as much as a 2nd thought while the EV won't. Will the technology improve to the point that will become a non-issue? Yes, eventually. Are we there today? No we aren't, even if 95% of the mileage we do are short-distance travels. It's the 5% that makes it a deal breaker. That, and the cost of an EV.
Sorry, I didn't see that bit. My reply was more a response to the suggested lack of freedom part, which I think we both agree, only applies to early adopters.

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strad
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Apparently the I.E.A. (International Energy Agency) predicts 125 million electric vehicles will be in use by 2030.
China is the largest market but Norway has the highest concentration.
There is a Chinese start up called SF motors that plans to build an electric vehicle plant in Indiana by 2020.
Much of the problem I see stateside is shown by the KIA Niro which has only a 26 mile all EV range. A 1.6 liter with only 104 Hp and 109 Lb Ft of torque with a combined Hp rating on 139.
For most over here that's pretty wimpy and would need to use all of the combined Hp to get up to merging speed on the freeway. Combine that with a 9 hr recharge when using typical 110V household current that's quite a drawback. It does charge in just over 2hrs IF you pay to have and electrician come in and install a dedicated 220V line and buy the quick charger.
I think for most of the people I know those are real problems. If they had the power of a Tesla and range of a Tesla and charged quickly and cost less than a Tesla, but not necessarily as cheap as a KIA, then they would be a viable option.
Simply my opinion.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

AJI
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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I did some work in China a few years ago. Kunming, a 'small' city of only ~6 million.
Every single motor scooter on the road was electric. Literally tens of thousands! I asked a local if I could take one for a spin. I was impressed with the performance. I was also shocked that the western world hasn't picked up on this simple idea.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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AJI wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:29 am
I did some work in China a few years ago. Kunming, a 'small' city of only ~6 million.
Every single motor scooter on the road was electric. Literally tens of thousands! I asked a local if I could take one for a spin. I was impressed with the performance. I was also shocked that the western world hasn't picked up on this simple idea.
Agree. Here in Madrid local police use some, but a few percentage.

Electric scooters are the perfect vehicle for a city. Today :mrgreen:

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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strad wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:01 am
Combine that with a 9 hr recharge when using typical 110V household current that's quite a drawback. It does charge in just over 2hrs IF you pay to have and electrician come in and install a dedicated 220V line and buy the quick charger.
I think for most of the people I know those are real problems.
That is going to be a North/Central American problem, it seems, as 120V is the common supply voltage there. For basically the entire rest of the world (excluding, notably, Japan with its 100V supply system), supply voltage is 220-240V which obviously gives more scope for quicker charging.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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strad
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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On the subject of scooters/motorbikes there was a program I watched yesterday on an electric dirt bike/ motocross bike. The reviewer said it had good power and that while heavier than a petrol machine was still quite agile. However it's battery was dead after a ½ hour of hard riding. That is about the same as the time it takes to run a comparable ICE powered bike out of gas. However it's much quicker to fill up with gas than charge the battery. :wink:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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Big Tea
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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strad wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:26 pm
On the subject of scooters/motorbikes there was a program I watched yesterday on an electric dirt bike/ motocross bike. The reviewer said it had good power and that while heavier than a petrol machine was still quite agile. However it's battery was dead after a ½ hour of hard riding. That is about the same as the time it takes to run a comparable ICE powered bike out of gas. However it's much quicker to fill up with gas than charge the battery. :wink:
I actually had an electric scooter for a while a few years back and was surprised by it. The performance was almost there and the range did me a week use as while it is not moving nothing is being used. What was the amazing thing was how good it was in the wet. It did not have huge power to begin with, so that would contribute, but it was more stable than the Majesty I was using as a town bike before it.
I suspect that the modern equivalent would be very good today. The bonus with the one I used was you lift the seat, hold the strap and pull. you then take the battery indoors to charge.
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

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strad
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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One other thing they pointed out in the review was that it could be submerged in, I think it was a meter or half meter of water without any problem. A good thing for a dirt bike.
Last edited by strad on Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

TzeiTzei
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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I think EV could be suitable as a second car in the household. But for me they are too expensive to buy as the second car. So the tech isn't quite ready for me yet.

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loner
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Scientists create battery that refuels electric cars in seconds
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-45179722

New battery tech ‘could recharge EVs in seconds, not hours
https://www.energylivenews.com/2018/08/ ... not-hours/
para bellum.