Ferrari SF1000

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
Xwang
Xwang
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:12 am

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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What I really cannot understand is that last year they said that they couldn't change some concept of the car and they had started to address the issue modifying what was possible without doing a newer chassis.
And then this year chassis seems exactly the same (with only different side pods).
I hope they are really hiding their performances.
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

digitalrurouni
digitalrurouni
19
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:50 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Well to me it makes sense- more downforce = more draggy. Their last year's engine would obviously have a harder time pushing the car through the air resistance. It's not like all of a sudden they can squeeze out another 50 hp to account for the drag in a year's iteration on these PUs.

f1316
f1316
135
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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The other Ferrari powered cars are still perfectly fast on the straight, so I don’t believe that the engine has anything wrong with it - whether or not the ‘settlement’ means it’s worse than last year is impossible to say.

The only two explanations for Ferrari being so much (~10kph) slower than Alfa/Haas are a. The car is much draggier, as Ferrari say b. That’s a rouse and they’ve got it heavily turned down.

I just find it hard to believe it’s *that* draggy. I don’t necessarily think they have a great car but I just can’t see why it’s drag level would be so high vs. Last year’s car or the other Ferrari-powered cars

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Fer.Fan wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:28 pm
sucof wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:04 pm
FIA reaches agreement with Ferrari after power unit investigation

https://www.racefans.net/2020/02/28/fia ... stigation/
O dear...

Another blow to Ferraris pace.
In the absence of any further detail the settlement from FIA to FERRARI could also have been for reputational damage of which FERRARI was very much upset about last year and that Ferrari was not guilty of any wrong doing.

vogonvader
vogonvader
2
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:18 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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I mean, I can kinda relate to Ferrari management arranging an agreement like this. All these engine/PU shenanigans are nothing new to the team after all. There was at the beginning the "2017 OilGate" stuff that occurred midway through the season. If I'm not mistaken Ferrari had somehow discovered Mercedes'd been found to be burning oil to gain extra performance for years with their now famous "party mode" which they implemented in their own PU as well but FIA immediately changed the regulations relating to the amount of oil that may be burned.

Then in 2018 came the "ERS-Gate" incidents, what was back then a huge headache for Ferrari for a long time through the season. Some anonymous Mercedes personnel (which turned out to be Lorenzo Sassi and James Allison) helped FIA dig into Ferrari's system, they forced Ferrari to run sensors, disclosed how their twin-battery ERS system worked.

And we remember the stuff that happened last year all over again with the sensors and other teams blaming Ferrari of cheating constantly. I don't know if Ferrari ever cheated or not in any of those instances but I reckon it's not a great thing to have your PU design undergo excessive examination constantly for years and at times have your design disclosed to the fullest detail because rivals ask for it.

foofykid
foofykid
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:29 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Ferrari will be 4th in championship this year. Hopefully they just full efforts in the 2021 car.

wowgr8
wowgr8
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Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:35 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Even before Ferrari implemented the fuel flow trickery around the Italian GP last year they had the engine advantage in qualifying presumably due to the ERS. The way Binotto has been talking coupled with this thorough FIA check has me thinking maybe they've lost that too. The engine was covering up for the fact that they were losing 1s/a lap in the corners last year so if the performance (especially in qualifying) is noticeably poor this year we have an explanation. The chassis performance is really unacceptable

wowgr8
wowgr8
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Just as I say that.. https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/accor ... o/4700696/

"Ferrari, therefore, wants to give an impetus to the study of the engine of the future and synthetic fuels to give a boost to research that is not only tied to the electrics, but must find a transition phase for the automotive before the network to support a zero-emission engine can be mature.


The Maranello-based company is making itself available to the FIA in its research into reducing carbon emissions, signing a peace of mind on last year's engine controversy and looking to the future with great confidence because the Prancing Horse's motorists have submitted to the federal commissioners the solutions that the 065 power unit will adopt in Melbourne that have been previously approved.


If Mercedes will have the DAS, Ferrari will be able to rely on a system of exploitation of the hybrid that will be more extended within a lap. Everyone will be able to play their cards on the track without suffering the controversial attacks we witnessed in the second half of last year.


And it has also created a barrier against the Red Bull strals that in 2019 had hinted at the existence of irregular solutions on the Ferrari engine.


Analyzing the conclusion of the tests in Barcelona comes to believe that if Mercedes had reliability problems due to lubrication problems for which Bottas and Hamilton have not expressed the true (enormous) potential of the W11, Ferrari has not shown what the Maranello power unit would be able to express on track.


The SF1000's low top speeds on the straight are partly due to the drag produced by the car, but partly due to an engine that has never run in true qualifying configuration. We won't discover that until Melbourne..."

There was talk of Ferrari working on the hybrid modes at the end of last year. But this news clashes with Binotto's completely defeatist attitude, Q3 at Albert Park can't come any sooner to put all the talk and speculation to bed

drunkf1fan
drunkf1fan
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Xwang wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:10 pm
What I really cannot understand is that last year they said that they couldn't change some concept of the car and they had started to address the issue modifying what was possible without doing a newer chassis.
And then this year chassis seems exactly the same (with only different side pods).
I hope they are really hiding their performances.
Maybe if they got engine nerfed due to this decision and knew it was coming they realised they couldn't be competitive and pretty early decided screw it, small changes and give up on 2020 and focus on 2021 even earlier than normal.

drunkf1fan
drunkf1fan
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Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:34 am

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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wowgr8 wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:24 am
Just as I say that.. https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/accor ... o/4700696/

If Mercedes will have the DAS, Ferrari will be able to rely on a system of exploitation of the hybrid that will be more extended within a lap. Everyone will be able to play their cards on the track without suffering the controversial attacks we witnessed in the second half of last year.

I saw this article posted on Reddit, the idea that the FIA came to a settlement with Ferrari that Merc would be allowed DAS and Ferrari would be allowed cheat modes on their engine is completely laughable. Firstly the settlement would have to be with every team. The idea that Ferrari wouldn't cause a stink with the FIA over DAS doesn't stop every other team complaining to the FIA about it. It's just such a fundamentally stupid take on what the settlement really meant. It was between the FIA and Ferrari only, it was after confiscating an engine and testing it while turned on for an extended period (most scrutineering is done with the car stationary and off which makes it harder to catch certain things like flexi wings).

The FIA basically told Merc Das was legal several times over the past year or two, Ferrari can complain about it all they like but it's legal this season regardless, so again why would the FIA let Ferrari use some kind of illegal hybrid modes to compensate them for another team doing something totally within the rules this season?

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MtthsMlw
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Location: Germany

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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wowgr8 wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:07 am
Even before Ferrari implemented the fuel flow trickery around the Italian GP last year they had the engine advantage in qualifying presumably due to the ERS. The way Binotto has been talking coupled with this thorough FIA check has me thinking maybe they've lost that too. The engine was covering up for the fact that they were losing 1s/a lap in the corners last year so if the performance (especially in qualifying) is noticeably poor this year we have an explanation. The chassis performance is really unacceptable
I would assume that they used the same "trick" since 2018, which is likely fuel sensor related. Just back then the ERS was suspected to produce the power boost. This could be checked and was declared legal.
The FIA couldn't definitely check the sensor stuff though, so they mandated a second encrypted sensor.

wowgr8
wowgr8
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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drunkf1fan wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:15 am
wowgr8 wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:24 am
Just as I say that.. https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/accor ... o/4700696/

If Mercedes will have the DAS, Ferrari will be able to rely on a system of exploitation of the hybrid that will be more extended within a lap. Everyone will be able to play their cards on the track without suffering the controversial attacks we witnessed in the second half of last year.

I saw this article posted on Reddit, the idea that the FIA came to a settlement with Ferrari that Merc would be allowed DAS and Ferrari would be allowed cheat modes on their engine is completely laughable. Firstly the settlement would have to be with every team. The idea that Ferrari wouldn't cause a stink with the FIA over DAS doesn't stop every other team complaining to the FIA about it. It's just such a fundamentally stupid take on what the settlement really meant. It was between the FIA and Ferrari only, it was after confiscating an engine and testing it while turned on for an extended period (most scrutineering is done with the car stationary and off which makes it harder to catch certain things like flexi wings).

The FIA basically told Merc Das was legal several times over the past year or two, Ferrari can complain about it all they like but it's legal this season regardless, so again why would the FIA let Ferrari use some kind of illegal hybrid modes to compensate them for another team doing something totally within the rules this season?
That's not what the article says at all, it's saying that this is Ferrari's version of DAS, in that it's an advantage they worked with the FIA to prove is legal. Ferrari didn't come up with this hybrid "trick" if you could call it that in response to DAS, the article is just making it seem that way, they developed it over the winter and ensured it's legal to avoid the badmouthing that was coming from rival teams last year

drunkf1fan
drunkf1fan
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Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:34 am

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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The Maranello-based company is making itself available to the FIA in its research into reducing carbon emissions, signing a peace of mind on last year's engine controversy and looking to the future with great confidence because the Prancing Horse's motorists have submitted to the federal commissioners the solutions that the 065 power unit will adopt in Melbourne that have been previously approved.

If Mercedes will have the DAS, Ferrari will be able to rely on a system of exploitation of the hybrid that will be more extended within a lap. Everyone will be able to play their cards on the track without suffering the controversial attacks we witnessed in the second half of last year.
That's part of a translation for it. The article is implying that they made a deal, Merc can use DAS and Ferrari can use whatever system they have to exploit their hybrid system and both teams will be able to use them on track without attacking each other.

What I said is exactly what this stupid article is trying to indicate, that DAS and Ferrari's 'system' within the Engine can both be used and they've made a deal not to question it. It's an absurd take on it because it literally doesn't involve Mercedes in the deal and the FIA have pretty plainly stated that DAS is legal while they've had to reach a settlement with Ferrari alone. This article is a pro Ferrari attempt to explain this settlement away not as punishment but as something else.

It also isn't anything to do with a trick they came up with over winter. Ferrari confiscated a 2019 engine at the end of the season and tested it in a lab over winter. This settlement is purely to do with the 2019 engine, nothing to do with a new development, and if it's legal it's legal. DAS is legal, where is the settlement between Mercedes and Ferrari. You don't make settlements or get pushed into doing community service because the FIA test a part of your car and find it's legal, that's just patently absurd.

This has nothing to do with a new development and no the FIA doesn't come to settlements to allow teams to use illegal parts for the forthcoming season. Either something new is legal in which case they are allowed to use it because it's legal or it's not. This has nothing to do with a new development for 2020 engine developed over winter.

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MtthsMlw
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Location: Germany

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Back to the car..
Different cooling config, test for hotter races.
Image
Image
via @LuisFeF1

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Blackout
928
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Why are Ferrari's rear top wishbones so thick? do they contain some... extra fuel?
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