Ferrari SF1000

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
Sevach
Sevach
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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dtro
dtro
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dfegan358 wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:17 pm
Very poor performance from Ferrari today. Considering their resources and financial clout, it is disappointing how they have performed this year.

Clearly the engine is at the bottom of the pack now. The technical department need to get things together at Maranello.

Seb is probably not too disappointed to be leaving as he has better Chance of wins/podiums at Aston Martin if he ends up there.
I can't defend them, but at this point the regulations severely hamstring a team's ability to react to a mistake in the development process.

Sevach
Sevach
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Xwang
Xwang
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:12 am

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dtro wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:10 pm
dfegan358 wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:17 pm
Very poor performance from Ferrari today. Considering their resources and financial clout, it is disappointing how they have performed this year.

Clearly the engine is at the bottom of the pack now. The technical department need to get things together at Maranello.

Seb is probably not too disappointed to be leaving as he has better Chance of wins/podiums at Aston Martin if he ends up there.
I can't defend them, but at this point the regulations severely hamstring a team's ability to react to a mistake in the development process.
True, but they knew that the car needed a lot to be done and they agreed to freeze the chassis components and the introduction of the 2 tokens available for this and the following year.
I wonder if someone in Ferrari has ever read "The art of war" by Sun Tzu, maybe they will discover that in a competitive environment like F1 they should only think about their team interests and not about if other teams will survive or not.
On the other hand it is also possible that they agreed to limit development so that to have an excuse for them not being able to design and develop a decent car.
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

dtro
dtro
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Xwang wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:32 pm
dtro wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:10 pm
dfegan358 wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:17 pm
Very poor performance from Ferrari today. Considering their resources and financial clout, it is disappointing how they have performed this year.

Clearly the engine is at the bottom of the pack now. The technical department need to get things together at Maranello.

Seb is probably not too disappointed to be leaving as he has better Chance of wins/podiums at Aston Martin if he ends up there.
I can't defend them, but at this point the regulations severely hamstring a team's ability to react to a mistake in the development process.
True, but they knew that the car needed a lot to be done and they agreed to freeze the chassis components and the introduction of the 2 tokens available for this and the following year.
I wonder if someone in Ferrari has ever read "The art of war" by Sun Tzu, maybe they will discover that in a competitive environment like F1 they should only think about their team interests and not about if other teams will survive or not.
On the other hand it is also possible that they agreed to limit development so that to have an excuse for them not being able to design and develop a decent car.
I don't know what they need to read, or misread to succeed again. Given their success was based off of at best an exploitation of a loophole and at worst outright cheating that required a settlement with the FIA or somewhere in between- their lack of pace is obscene. Two years of this will be rough on the Tifosi.

Given Covid-19 I'm not surprised they didn't have much leverage in such negotiations when it comes to attempting to save this season and the next.

wowgr8
wowgr8
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Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:35 pm

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Xwang wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:32 pm

True, but they knew that the car needed a lot to be done and they agreed to freeze the chassis components and the introduction of the 2 tokens available for this and the following year.
I wonder if someone in Ferrari has ever read "The art of war" by Sun Tzu, maybe they will discover that in a competitive environment like F1 they should only think about their team interests and not about if other teams will survive or not.
On the other hand it is also possible that they agreed to limit development so that to have an excuse for them not being able to design and develop a decent car.

I think the 2020 project was good but all the good work was destroyed in November by the technical directive. At that point when their goal was max downforce they then had to do a 180 on the entire thing and started to try and shave downforce off the car, that's why they're in such a mess at the moment trying to flip a car on its head mid-season. The 2019 wins were nice but they shouldn't have gone as far as bending the regulations, how can you base an entire car concept off dodgy tactics in the engine department? I'm a Ferrari fan but they totally deserve the suffering they'll go through for these 2 years, they better learn from it. The 2021 car supposedly goes back in the SF90 direction with less DF, long wheelbase and lower rake which worries me, they'll lose everything that's decent about this car like the solid tyre management

Ringleheim
Ringleheim
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Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:02 am

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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dtro wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:08 pm
Xwang wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:32 pm
dtro wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:10 pm


I can't defend them, but at this point the regulations severely hamstring a team's ability to react to a mistake in the development process.
True, but they knew that the car needed a lot to be done and they agreed to freeze the chassis components and the introduction of the 2 tokens available for this and the following year.
I wonder if someone in Ferrari has ever read "The art of war" by Sun Tzu, maybe they will discover that in a competitive environment like F1 they should only think about their team interests and not about if other teams will survive or not.
On the other hand it is also possible that they agreed to limit development so that to have an excuse for them not being able to design and develop a decent car.
I don't know what they need to read, or misread to succeed again. Given their success was based off of at best an exploitation of a loophole and at worst outright cheating that required a settlement with the FIA or somewhere in between- their lack of pace is obscene. Two years of this will be rough on the Tifosi.

Given Covid-19 I'm not surprised they didn't have much leverage in such negotiations when it comes to attempting to save this season and the next.
Obscene is a good word for this tragedy. There is no way a team as large and as well funded as Ferrari should be producing a car this bad.

I'm pretty sure most if not all development on this year's car--and next year's car--is already canned in an effort to get the new reg car correct out of the gate.

As a big time Ferrari fan, I sure hope that is the plan.

LM10
LM10
106
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Ringleheim wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:30 am
dtro wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:08 pm
Xwang wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:32 pm


True, but they knew that the car needed a lot to be done and they agreed to freeze the chassis components and the introduction of the 2 tokens available for this and the following year.
I wonder if someone in Ferrari has ever read "The art of war" by Sun Tzu, maybe they will discover that in a competitive environment like F1 they should only think about their team interests and not about if other teams will survive or not.
On the other hand it is also possible that they agreed to limit development so that to have an excuse for them not being able to design and develop a decent car.
I don't know what they need to read, or misread to succeed again. Given their success was based off of at best an exploitation of a loophole and at worst outright cheating that required a settlement with the FIA or somewhere in between- their lack of pace is obscene. Two years of this will be rough on the Tifosi.

Given Covid-19 I'm not surprised they didn't have much leverage in such negotiations when it comes to attempting to save this season and the next.
Obscene is a good word for this tragedy. There is no way a team as large and as well funded as Ferrari should be producing a car this bad.

I'm pretty sure most if not all development on this year's car--and next year's car--is already canned in an effort to get the new reg car correct out of the gate.

As a big time Ferrari fan, I sure hope that is the plan.
I also think and hope so. I guess that's why Binotto told that this and next season are gonna be kind of hard for us all, in an attempt to prepare the people.

CRazyLemon
CRazyLemon
4
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:22 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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LM10 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:37 am
Ringleheim wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:30 am
dtro wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:08 pm


I don't know what they need to read, or misread to succeed again. Given their success was based off of at best an exploitation of a loophole and at worst outright cheating that required a settlement with the FIA or somewhere in between- their lack of pace is obscene. Two years of this will be rough on the Tifosi.

Given Covid-19 I'm not surprised they didn't have much leverage in such negotiations when it comes to attempting to save this season and the next.
Obscene is a good word for this tragedy. There is no way a team as large and as well funded as Ferrari should be producing a car this bad.

I'm pretty sure most if not all development on this year's car--and next year's car--is already canned in an effort to get the new reg car correct out of the gate.

As a big time Ferrari fan, I sure hope that is the plan.
I also think and hope so. I guess that's why Binotto told that this and next season are gonna be kind of hard for us all, in an attempt to prepare the people.
They cannot develop the 2022 car until 2021 starts.

The hope needs to be in them giving full focus into developing the engine right now so when the can change it in 2021 they're competitive again (engine wise) .

I also wonder if voting in favour of the development limitations for "the good of the sport" had more to do with the FIA saga or wanting to get veto rights kept in the new concord agreement.

The pure lack of new aero parts this year also makes me wonder if they're keen to finish low in the constructes championship so they get additional wind tunnel and cfd time.

dfegan358
dfegan358
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Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 1:16 am

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Vettel last in fp3

Leclerc in p17

Hard to watch for a Ferrari fan. Let’s hope they can get things right for 2022.

bruno958
bruno958
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Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:37 am

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They are actually going backwards. Binotto promised a better Saturday yesterday, something about tire temperatures. At what point can we clearly state that the team is incompetent in the basic principles of aerodynamic/traction and that new personnel is required for improvement?

JPBD1990
JPBD1990
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Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:19 am

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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bruno958 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:40 pm
They are actually going backwards. Binotto promised a better Saturday yesterday, something about tire temperatures. At what point can we clearly state that the team is incompetent in the basic principles of aerodynamic/traction and that new personnel is required for improvement?
More relevant in the team thread, but Ferrari has been walking down that road for years. They’ve been replacing person after person for years, which is exactly what has lead us here. It’s worked so well up to this point, I’m glad to see people are STILL rationally requesting this... again.

I know, let’s fire everyone and burn down maranello, and start from the ground up. I’ll see you in 2055 for their next chance of winning.

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El Scorchio
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I don't want to be too provocative, but this year's car is absolute trash. How can Ferrari have got it so badly wrong? Clearly much is to do with the engine situation and they have clearly got stuck since the 'secret deal' forced them to make changes, but as an organisation they seem rudderless at the moment as well. To be behind smaller teams who are buying their engines is just an all time low. Hopefully they have something in reserve for qualifying or they face being eliminated in Q1.

Where do they go from here?

McMika98
McMika98
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Feel for the tifosi. After the highs of last year including win at home race to now where there is 3 home races where they are in serious danger of not making out of Q1. Would be amusing if Seb does and Alonso and calls out the GP2 engine

Ferrari really don't have an excuse, they had all winter to rectify the engine.

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El Scorchio
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JPBD1990 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:43 pm
bruno958 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:40 pm
They are actually going backwards. Binotto promised a better Saturday yesterday, something about tire temperatures. At what point can we clearly state that the team is incompetent in the basic principles of aerodynamic/traction and that new personnel is required for improvement?
More relevant in the team thread, but Ferrari has been walking down that road for years. They’ve been replacing person after person for years, which is exactly what has lead us here. It’s worked so well up to this point, I’m glad to see people are STILL rationally requesting this... again.

I know, let’s fire everyone and burn down maranello, and start from the ground up. I’ll see you in 2055 for their next chance of winning.
I get that constantly chopping and changing solves nothing, but honestly is Binotto REALLY the right man to be leading the team? Look at the successful team principals past and present. They are not engineers being asked to be managers like him. They are managers, leaders and motivators who know enough about engineering to manage teams of engineers or 'specialists'. From my basic understanding of management and personality types, usually the type of person who is a brilliant engineer or a so called specialist is not the sort of personality type who is equipped to lead a huge group of people effectively. I won't go into all the whys and wherefores, but I am sure there are plenty or articles and studies on line which can be easily read.