Mercedes W12

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Marty_Y
Marty_Y
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Re: Mercedes W12

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DarthPlagueisTheVise wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:56 pm
Does anyone know how they get the readings from the tyre temperature sensor on the front wing ?
I thought it was wired to the center of the car but they can change the front wing and still get the readings off the sensor. Is it wireless or am I missing something
The sensor I am talking about
https://resmim.net/i/B2kCk
Somebody was asking a similar question about cameras in the Ferrari thread a while ago, iirc a picture was posted and it showed a wiring connector that snapped together when the wing is put on.

IDK if it is the same for the tyre temperature sensors but I'm sure someone with more information will be able to help.

dans79
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Location: USA

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

DarthPlagueisTheVise wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:56 pm
Does anyone know how they get the readings from the tyre temperature sensor on the front wing ?
I thought it was wired to the center of the car but they can change the front wing and still get the readings off the sensor. Is it wireless or am I missing something
The sensor I am talking about
https://resmim.net/i/B2kCk
The amount of data being transmitted is so small it could probably be wireless and powered by a hearing aid battery. However, my assumption is they just have tiny pressure pads to allow the nose to quickly be swapped.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes W12

Post

DarthPlagueisTheVise wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:56 pm
Does anyone know how they get the readings from the tyre temperature sensor on the front wing ?
I thought it was wired to the center of the car but they can change the front wing and still get the readings off the sensor. Is it wireless or am I missing something
The sensor I am talking about
https://resmim.net/i/B2kCk
There is a plug that connects the nose wiring to the chassis loom. It connects as the nose is located during the swap.

Edit to add this image. It's the Red Bull nose but it's the same basic idea. You can see the electrical connector to the left of the centre. It has two guide pins too, to ensure first-fit-every-time connection. The four connecting lugs that connect the nose to the tub are nicely visible too.

Image
Last edited by Just_a_fan on Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Marble
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Found a list of evolutions brought by RBR and Merc. Striking :

https://blog.autoplus.fr/moncet/2021/07 ... tone-2021/


DarthPlagueisTheVise
DarthPlagueisTheVise
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Thank you @Marty_Y, @dans79, @Just_a_fan
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atanatizante
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Re: Mercedes W12

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zibby43 wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:11 pm
According to the Merc engineers, with the upgraded car, their simulations finally pointed toward a lower downforce configuration as the fastest/best option.

Whereas, pre-upgrade, the sims had always favoured packing on extra downforce and larger rear wings.
Seems that they`ll have a new RW in the pipeline for Spa for being the last team that didn`t use the spoon shape ... and maybe a tweak to the front one, don`t you think?
Last edited by atanatizante on Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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atanatizante
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Re: Mercedes W12

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:06 am
Yes. They copied RedBulls the little vertical vanes on the floor at the base of the sidepods. Seems to be working.
I`ve read that due to their shortest 2021 wind tunnel programme time and most of all due to the 2021 cost cap they waited and analysed all the teams' updates until some 5-6 weeks ago in order to make a decision which direction should take for the aero parts. Something wise and efficient like Racing Point/AM were doing some years ago ...
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zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W12

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atanatizante wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:53 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:11 pm
According to the Merc engineers, with the upgraded car, their simulations finally pointed toward a lower downforce configuration as the fastest/best option.

Whereas, pre-upgrade, the sims had always favoured packing on extra downforce and larger rear wings.
Seems that they`ll have a new RW in the pipeline for Spa for being the last team that didn`t use the spoon shape ... and maybe a tweak to the front one, don`t you think?
I’m guessing they’ll probably select one of the single-pylon RWs that is already in their inventory. It has been a few years since Merc have deployed a spoon RW.

The current FW spec is quite old, but they did use an alternative variant at some circuits last year, including Mugello. May see it re-appear at some point this year.

Current spec is top right:

Image

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atanatizante
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:33 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

zibby43 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:06 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:53 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:11 pm
According to the Merc engineers, with the upgraded car, their simulations finally pointed toward a lower downforce configuration as the fastest/best option.

Whereas, pre-upgrade, the sims had always favoured packing on extra downforce and larger rear wings.
Seems that they`ll have a new RW in the pipeline for Spa for being the last team that didn`t use the spoon shape ... and maybe a tweak to the front one, don`t you think?
I’m guessing they’ll probably select one of the single-pylon RWs that is already in their inventory. It has been a few years since Merc have deployed a spoon RW.

...
The rumours about the new (maybe spoon) RW came down to what Ross Brawn said about the Merc issues that the`ll need a new RW and the need to update the balance at the front and rear due to the Silverstone upgrades ...
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

crazychrome
crazychrome
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Re: Mercedes W12

Post

zibby43 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:06 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:53 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:11 pm
According to the Merc engineers, with the upgraded car, their simulations finally pointed toward a lower downforce configuration as the fastest/best option.

Whereas, pre-upgrade, the sims had always favoured packing on extra downforce and larger rear wings.
Seems that they`ll have a new RW in the pipeline for Spa for being the last team that didn`t use the spoon shape ... and maybe a tweak to the front one, don`t you think?
I’m guessing they’ll probably select one of the single-pylon RWs that is already in their inventory. It has been a few years since Merc have deployed a spoon RW.

The current FW spec is quite old, but they did use an alternative variant at some circuits last year, including Mugello. May see it re-appear at some point this year.

Current spec is top right:

https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... -det-1.jpg
W12's uppermost flap definitely has a different profile, the 2nd flap may also be different (compared to top right)

W12: https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 181949.jpg
W11: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eivy4O2XgAEQ71I.jpg

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W12

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atanatizante wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:22 am
zibby43 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:06 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:53 pm


Seems that they`ll have a new RW in the pipeline for Spa for being the last team that didn`t use the spoon shape ... and maybe a tweak to the front one, don`t you think?
I’m guessing they’ll probably select one of the single-pylon RWs that is already in their inventory. It has been a few years since Merc have deployed a spoon RW.

...
The rumours about the new (maybe spoon) RW came down to what Ross Brawn said about the Merc issues that the`ll need a new RW and the need to update the balance at the front and rear due to the Silverstone upgrades ...
Understood. That particular spec of RW in Silverstone was new. Only place I can think of where we’ll see something that we haven’t seen (re: the RW) is Monza.

zibby43
zibby43
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Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Mercedes W12

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crazychrome wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:01 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:06 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:53 pm


Seems that they`ll have a new RW in the pipeline for Spa for being the last team that didn`t use the spoon shape ... and maybe a tweak to the front one, don`t you think?
I’m guessing they’ll probably select one of the single-pylon RWs that is already in their inventory. It has been a few years since Merc have deployed a spoon RW.

The current FW spec is quite old, but they did use an alternative variant at some circuits last year, including Mugello. May see it re-appear at some point this year.

Current spec is top right:

https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... -det-1.jpg
W12's uppermost flap definitely has a different profile, the 2nd flap may also be different (compared to top right)

W12: https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 181949.jpg
W11: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eivy4O2XgAEQ71I.jpg
You’ve got a good eye to be able to spot differences from those shots!

I’m sure there are some subtle differences in flap profiles and flap settings from this year to last, but I was referring to the general philosophy and architecture with the split tip design.

Everything else around the foot plates is virtually identical (to last year) as well.

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atanatizante
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:33 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:51 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:22 am
zibby43 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:06 pm


I’m guessing they’ll probably select one of the single-pylon RWs that is already in their inventory. It has been a few years since Merc have deployed a spoon RW.

...
The rumours about the new (maybe spoon) RW came down to what Ross Brawn said about the Merc issues that the`ll need a new RW and the need to update the balance at the front and rear due to the Silverstone upgrades ...
Understood. That particular spec of RW in Silverstone was new. Only place I can think of where we’ll see something that we haven’t seen (re: the RW) is Monza.
My point but most of all Ross`s point (I think) is that W12 is the last car that is not using the spoon shape RW (maybe AM also does has a classic RW). Is this related to the low rake concept car or something else?
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
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zibby43
zibby43
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Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

atanatizante wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:41 am
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:51 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:22 am


The rumours about the new (maybe spoon) RW came down to what Ross Brawn said about the Merc issues that the`ll need a new RW and the need to update the balance at the front and rear due to the Silverstone upgrades ...
Understood. That particular spec of RW in Silverstone was new. Only place I can think of where we’ll see something that we haven’t seen (re: the RW) is Monza.
My point but most of all Ross`s point (I think) is that W12 is the last car that is not using the spoon shape RW (maybe AM also does has a classic RW). Is this related to the low rake concept car or something else?
That may be the case this year, but Merc debuted the spoon RW in the hybrid era in 2015, and ran it through the W09.

They’ve just found better solutions for their car that don’t involve that shape.

https://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/en/ ... 94009.html

b2bL44
b2bL44
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:46 am

Re: Mercedes W12

Post

atanatizante wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:00 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:06 am
Yes. They copied RedBulls the little vertical vanes on the floor at the base of the sidepods. Seems to be working.
I`ve read that due to their shortest 2021 wind tunnel programme time and most of all due to the 2021 cost cap they waited and analysed all the teams' updates until some 5-6 weeks ago in order to make a decision which direction should take for the aero parts. Something wise and efficient like Racing Point/AM were doing some years ago ...
Where did you read this? May I request a link?