Well the post i quoted did state the need for Kamui to lift.beelsebob wrote:I don't think (I hope at least) that no one is asserting that he was obliged to... However, it would have been sensible to do so, he said this himself, that he ended up in a place he didn't really want to be. Hamilton cutting across – no he wasn't meant to predict that in any way, Hamilton took himself out there. That said, Kamui was in a pretty silly place.Gerhard Berger wrote:So he's obliged to lift because he some how knew Hamilton was going to cut across him?
So basically drivers should avoid going near Hamilton's car because it puts their own race at risk.marcush. wrote:the point is : he put himself in a crash position for no reason .
It did not gain him time
It put his own race at risk
he did not know if Hamilton was aware of him and gave himself and hamilton no breathing space to go .just not very clever.
Hamilton obviously is to blame ,no question did he judge the situation wrong but kamui had given in anyways why make it tight in that situation...
And you don't see it as normal for drivers to re-take the racing line after defending? That's pretty much the done thing for all times when the driver defending thinks the job is done because the other person is too far back.Gerhard Berger wrote:I see nothing wrong with the positioning of Kamui's car. He's on the racing line and sticks to it. Lewis is inside of him and slowly veers towards him.
It is normal, but only once they have fully passed the other car.beelsebob wrote:And you don't see it as normal for drivers to re-take the racing line after defending? That's pretty much the done thing for all times when the driver defending thinks the job is done because the other person is too far back.Gerhard Berger wrote:I see nothing wrong with the positioning of Kamui's car. He's on the racing line and sticks to it. Lewis is inside of him and slowly veers towards him.
Kamui should have seen that the job was done, and lifted a little... Hamilton certainly shouldn't have assumed that the job was done.
Agreed – so what I'm saying is with kamui only barely along side he could have thought reasonably "hey, there's a fair chance with the --- mirrors these cars have, and the fact that I'm in a blind spot that he's going to think the job's done and move across. Because of that, I'm going to lift a little and enter the corner marginally slower. It's going to get me tucked up right behind him and I might have a chance into Rivage if I really think I can get him back."Gerhard Berger wrote:It is normal, but only once they have fully passed the other car.
If the job was genuinly done, then there would have been no need for Kamui to lift.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opj_RtQLUoA[/youtube]Lewis needs to sit down and watch the last few years of Alonso's greatest overtaking hits to learn how to overtake without driving into the other car!
The irony is that we saw Alonso fall in line when he was overtaken at this race. Of course I'm not saying he was obliged to, just that he did.djos wrote:Peter sauber doesn't pay him to roll over and play dead when Lewis, mark, Jensen, alonso or button steam up along side of him!
All the top drivers can and have made 'elementary' errors like that. But everyone has their favourite driver and their favourite driver to dump on, and that is what ends up driving these debates. Take the Alonso incident further up the thread - elementary error by your judgement and that is from a two time world champion widely regarded as the most complete driver on the grid. Look at all the mistakes Schumacher has made in the last two years, despite 20 years of experience. Look at Webber in Valencia on a very slow back marker last year, or Vettel in Spa last year losing control pulling out of a slip stream.richard_leeds wrote:Sorry Strad - I know I shouldn't add the thread, but I'm genuinely interested about what is going on in someone's head to cause them to make elementary errors.
One expects rookies like Maldonado to have moments like that, but not someone with Hamilton's talent, experience, and much faster car on an otherwise open track. Curious isn't it?