2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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raymondu999
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by raymondu999 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:25 pm

iotar__ wrote:There's also nothing behind "tyres limiting speed" claim. 1. We've got only those tyres. 2. Cars can't run without tyres. 3. Speed of the car = speed with tyres. There's no theoretical speed of the car without tyres and thus tyres limiting speed. Claims that "they could go faster if not for the tyres" (not yours to be clear) make little sense because they are based on mixing theoretical values with real life data and results.
I'm quite sure what he means is that, if there was an option (as video games have) to set tyre wear to 0, then the Red Bull would be lapping the driver in P3 every race.
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f1316
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by f1316 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:06 pm

raymondu99 wrote:
iotar__ wrote:There's also nothing behind "tyres limiting speed" claim. 1. We've got only those tyres. 2. Cars can't run without tyres. 3. Speed of the car = speed with tyres. There's no theoretical speed of the car without tyres and thus tyres limiting speed. Claims that "they could go faster if not for the tyres" (not yours to be clear) makadvantage little sense because they are based on mixing theoretical values with real life data and results.
I'm quite sure what he means is that, if there was an option (as video games have) to set tyre wear to 0, then the Red Bull would be lapping the driver in P3 every race.
And you believe they have that kind of advantage? I for one most certainly do not.

raymondu999
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by raymondu999 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:19 pm

Believe or not is irrelevant - because this isn't a video game where you can dial down tyre wear to 0.
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by hollus » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:25 pm

Exactly. If I could set inertia and drag to 0, I would be lapping the entire field, Bulls included, in my bicycle. But I cannot, as they cannot set tire wear to 0.
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ringo
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by ringo » Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:17 am

Well if you get a race like /india 2012, you will see more dominance because the tyres dont wear much there.
For Sure!!

raymondu999
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by raymondu999 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:55 am

ringo wrote:Well if you get a race like /india 2012, you will see more dominance because the tyres dont wear much there.
Agreed - just about. With the caveat that of course it remains to be seen what the tyre choices will be for India, Abu Dhabi etc this year, and whether or not they will display similar characteristics to last year in hardly wearing. Maybe Pirelli might even bring along soft and supersofts for Austin, Abu Dhabi etc.
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ajdavison2
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by ajdavison2 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:57 am

Yes but was that becuase of the tracks having low-wear characteristics, or because the teams had got a handle on the tyres by that point?

raymondu999
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by raymondu999 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:04 am

If James Allison is anything to go by, in the latest JA on F1 podcast he says that it was an overused term - the one-stop races were primarily because the tyres were generally too durable for the respective track surfaces.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:40 pm

iotar__ wrote:
n smikle wrote: The car is about half a second ahead of the other cars but the tyres have limited the RB's pace in the races we have had so far. You actually might see the true pace of the RB on the more milder down-force dependent tracks.
0,5 s ahead? What do you mean by that? The only thing we've got is: current tracks, current races and current results. So in which parallel universe is RB faster by 0,5 s? Over one lap? Average over the whole race distance? That would be overall 28 s.
I mean flat out with fresh tyres.
There's also nothing behind "tyres limiting speed" claim. 1. We've got only those tyres. 2. Cars can't run without tyres. 3. Speed of the car = speed with tyres. There's no theoretical speed of the car without tyres and thus tyres limiting speed. Claims that "they could go faster if not for the tyres" (not yours to be clear) make little sense because they are based on mixing theoretical values with real life data and results.
There is something behind saying the tyres limit the speed of the cars. Give me Michelins and You take the Pirellis and lets race over a distance and see who finishes first. Well, lets see who finishes! coz I know you wont even make it past 20 laps! If you see what I mean. So when I say tyres limit the pace, I litterally mean the pace of the car over the race is heavily dictated by the wear of the tyres. Even if your car is half a second quicker than mine on fresh tyres, there will be a point in the race when both of us have to travel at near identical pace to save them.
And what do you mean by true pace? The one after they have figured out tyre degradation? [Leaving tracks aside which is another variable. After Melbourne it was only about tyres, now it's about tyres AND tracks. Interesting correlation between results and reasons behind them.] Well, it's going to be a different car then. Developed based on data from actual races, on actual tyres. Not theoretical ones.
By True pace, I mean the results in lap time on fresh tyres in the race. Say you could go flat out from start to finish like the 2012 USA GP.
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theblackangus
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by theblackangus » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:16 pm

n smikle wrote:
There is something behind saying the tyres limit the speed of the cars. Give me Michelins and You take the Pirellis and lets race over a distance and see who finishes first. Well, lets see who finishes! coz I know you wont even make it past 20 laps! If you see what I mean. So when I say tyres limit the pace, I litterally mean the pace of the car over the race is heavily dictated by the wear of the tyres. Even if your car is half a second quicker than mine on fresh tyres, there will be a point in the race when both of us have to travel at near identical pace to save them.
This may or may not be true. If both teams were given a year to design tires to the same spec I would bet the results were very close.
If you chose to compare apples (previous Michelin) to oranges (current Pirellis) then that is simply not useful, as they were designed to different specs.

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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Nando » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:32 pm

You guys are talking about two different things.

Best car and fastest car. They are not the same.
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by SilverArrow10 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:28 am

I know its a long way off but i'm bord without F1 around so i'm going to have a go at who will be on the podium in china or rather what I want to happen.

1st - Hamilton
2nd- Alonso
3rd- Rosberg

(biased I know)

Mind you for this to happen both Red bulls will have to mess up and to keep the championship alive I hope that happens, not likely though. Expect an improved McLaren as well possible top 5.
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"Ok Lewis, Its Hammertime!!" - Peter Bonnington

"Fresh tires, 15 laps. What do you think Lewis Hamilton is going to do?" - Martin Brundle

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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by flynfrog » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:50 am

n smikle wrote:snip
Or you could go with a current spec v8 and I will run a one race v10, 2006 spec areo packages vs 2009. Fuel stops vs no fuel stops. Different rules different cars different paces and strategies. Trying to argue one way or another is rather pointless as the different rule sets dictate a different maximum.

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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Hail22 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:03 pm

Formula 1 is arriving extremely early...these photos were recently taken from the Pudong International Airport in Shanghai China:

Image

Image

Image
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Gridlock » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:23 pm

Are you sure they're this year? There's an SL but no SLS so probably 2010 or so?
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