2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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lebesset
lebesset
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Re: 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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who makes the final decision on tyres ? I rather had the impression that it was the driver when it was the top men

I often feel that there is too much coaching allowed from the pit wall , so I was impressed with the fact that , when hamilton was told he didn't have any fuel worries his response was .....I'm saving the tyres ! the longer he could stay on the options the longer rosberg would be forced to stay on the prime and the bigger the gap ; or would it have been better for hamilton to go for it and accept a shorter tyre life in exchange for getting away quickly ? a nice decision for hamilton to make but he clearly wasn't in any doubt

wonder if he was correct !
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

Mandrake
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Re: 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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komninosm wrote:So does anyone else think 3 seconds a lap is too much?
I mean I'm a Mercedes and a Hamilton fan, but it seems more than Red Bull even.
Seems? It is :lol:

But as expected, as soon as it's not RedBull or Vettel who is having this kind of a margin vs. the others, suddenly it's not that bad at all. Instead, people applaud for the "incredible" battle 30 seconds in front.

Last year at least in the beginning there was action and closeness within the field. Now it's MGP half a minute in front and then nothing. All the other teams are fighting for the golden pineapple....

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Phil
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Re: 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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I can only speak for myself, but the dominance of Redbull was rather tiring because we precisely didn't see much fighting for the win. What is exciting now, is that either Mercedes driver are both on it and battling for the win - something we rarely saw in 2011 for instance and less in 2013 (both years where Vettel/Redbull was extremely dominant). It would have helped if Vettel had to fight for wins more.

I guess it's more "how someone won" than the pure fact of him winning that's important to me. Winning under pressure is what ends up being memorable for me. Nothing against Vettel, but I think a lot of people would probably respect him more if they felt that he really had to work for his wins against a strong team-mate. This was the case in 2010 (despite the team-orders etc), but watching Vettel win that season was memorable, because he precisely had to fight for it (even if I was rooting for Webber).
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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lebesset
lebesset
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Re: 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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call me a cynic , but I often wondered if webber was kept because he was disadvantaged just the right amount by his size ie not enough to risk the constructors championship
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

Stradivarius
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Re: 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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Phil wrote:I can only speak for myself, but the dominance of Redbull was rather tiring because we precisely didn't see much fighting for the win. What is exciting now, is that either Mercedes driver are both on it and battling for the win - something we rarely saw in 2011 for instance and less in 2013 (both years where Vettel/Redbull was extremely dominant). It would have helped if Vettel had to fight for wins more.

I guess it's more "how someone won" than the pure fact of him winning that's important to me. Winning under pressure is what ends up being memorable for me. Nothing against Vettel, but I think a lot of people would probably respect him more if they felt that he really had to work for his wins against a strong team-mate. This was the case in 2010 (despite the team-orders etc), but watching Vettel win that season was memorable, because he precisely had to fight for it (even if I was rooting for Webber).
I agree that the races and the championship still has the potential of being close despite Mercedes advantage, since Hamilton and Rosberg are at the same level. But I am a bit worried. We have already discussed the strategies, but even if Rosberg's strategy wasn't much slower than Hamilton's, don't you think it mattered at all for Mercedes that they were able to avoid close, risky battles by running different strategies? When Rosberg had his first go at Hamilton and was forced off the track, he came on the radio and said: "Warn him, that was not on!" And the kind of close racing we saw for the last couple of laps of the first stint and the first laps after safety car, was very exciting for us, but probably very uncomfortable for the top Mercedes people to watch, as that kind of aggressiveness that we saw from Lewis does not come without risk. We have all seen Hamilton making contact with others in situations like that. Happily for Mercedes, Rosberg yielded every time that he had to. My concern is that Mercedes will ruin the excitement. In Bahrain they were about to do it through the strategies, but failed because of the safety car. Next time I don't know what they will do.

lebesset
lebesset
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Re: 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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I don't believe the comments about the reasons for the strategy for one minute ; I thing rosberg realised that his car advantage wasn't big enough to win if he just followed the same strategy , hence the alternative strategy

could be that if hamilton was behind at the first stop he would have done the same thing , but as we all saw , he didn't fancy the idea !
I expect this season to play out as another 2009 , the drivers at mercedes are good enough to exploit their advantage while it lasts so that , although the championships look to be theirs , we can expect some tough competition from ferrari and renault engined cars as the season progresses
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

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iotar__
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Re: 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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It's going to be interesting to see how they will manage it in other races. Direct competition adds some variables: traffic (overtaking, lapping), affecting the pace (has to react to other driver), complicates strategy for the team, tyre advantage towards the end of the stint, outlap/inlap, mistakes, handling with heavy car in the beginning. If this pitstop timing is such a disadvantage I'd expect many "alternative" strategies for Mercedes (or any other team) in the future. Four laps into every race where they lead one-two and second driver gets fuel saving and primes for second stint. [two stops/Bahrain tyre difference should not be unusual]. I somehow doubt that will be the case.

BTW this is how "not overly worried" Lowe looks like (would be even clearer as a gif):
Image

Mandrake
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Re: 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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lebesset wrote:I expect this season to play out as another 2009 , the drivers at mercedes are good enough to exploit their advantage while it lasts so that , although the championships look to be theirs , we can expect some tough competition from ferrari and renault engined cars as the season progresses
I hope it's going to be like that, but the situation is fundamentally different. In 09, Teams had to find downforce to match the BGP. This year, Mercedes has a 2 secs advantage mostly on engine. RedBull has a similarly good chassis, but the engine is not on par (software and hardware I believe).

With too limited testing and frozen engine hardware, I do not think that we will see a change in the fight for the lead for the rest of the season. Will the rest get closer? Probably. Will Merc be challenged for the win? Only if they struggle technically...

BlackSwan
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Re: 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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Hi, I think that this graph is pretty impressive :O
https://twitter.com/piusgasso/status/454328602335928321

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FoxHound
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Re: 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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Mandrake wrote: I hope it's going to be like that, but the situation is fundamentally different. In 09, Teams had to find downforce to match the BGP. This year, Mercedes has a 2 secs advantage mostly on engine. RedBull has a similarly good chassis, but the engine is not on par (software and hardware I believe).

With too limited testing and frozen engine hardware, I do not think that we will see a change in the fight for the lead for the rest of the season. Will the rest get closer? Probably. Will Merc be challenged for the win? Only if they struggle technically...
I wouldn't say it was entirely down to the engine performance. There is engine integration, software application, Energy recovery systems, cooling requirements, and also the new brake by wire system which alot of teams have thus far struggled with. Mercedes have just done a better job in all the categories which makes the sum of it's parts appear massive.
But then Mercedes AMG are also a full 1.5/2 seconds clear of the next Mercedes powered car, which goes a long way to explain that it simply is not just the engine.
That chassis and the aero is not getting enough Kudos in my opinion.
JET set

lebesset
lebesset
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Re: 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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Mandrake wrote:
lebesset wrote:I expect this season to play out as another 2009 , the drivers at mercedes are good enough to exploit their advantage while it lasts so that , although the championships look to be theirs , we can expect some tough competition from ferrari and renault engined cars as the season progresses
I hope it's going to be like that, but the situation is fundamentally different. In 09, Teams had to find downforce to match the BGP. This year, Mercedes has a 2 secs advantage mostly on engine. RedBull has a similarly good chassis, but the engine is not on par (software and hardware I believe).

With too limited testing and frozen engine hardware, I do not think that we will see a change in the fight for the lead for the rest of the season. Will the rest get closer? Probably. Will Merc be challenged for the win? Only if they struggle technically...
as you say , RBR already has a similarly good chassis , maybe even better
but ferrari and renault have history as good engine manufacturers , and although in theory engines have to be as homologated , in reality the FIA have absolute discretion to allow changes ..to improve reliability for example ; so , as has happened in the past , I have no doubt that we shall see major improvements from both of the other engines ...as a by product of reliability changes or cost saving of course ! [ insert nod and wink ]

the FIA could never have forseen such a disparity of engine performance , and it is not in the interest of F1 to let it continue

incidentally , could any of the mercedes engined teams get appreciably closer ? imho only McLaren have the resources , maybe if they can get a new aerodynamicist it will be possible , lol
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

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SiLo
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Re: 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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BlackSwan wrote:Hi, I think that this graph is pretty impressive :O

https://twitter.com/piusgasso/status/454328602335928321
I think that really hits home the advantage. They are just so much faster, with less drop off from tyres as well. I think it may actually be too much for any one team to catch up over the season, especially considering Merc will be developing at a similar, or slightly slower pace as well.
Felipe Baby!

sAx
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Re: 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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thomin wrote:Also, remember that Rosberg had much more fuel in hand compared to Hamilton.
Much more?? How much more???
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thomin
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Re: 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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sAx wrote:
thomin wrote:Also, remember that Rosberg had much more fuel in hand compared to Hamilton.
Much more?? How much more???
So much more that he had to go at lengths to burn it behind the safety car as he wouldn't have been able to use it.
It is also something that was said on the team radio a couple of times plus it was occasionally shown in an info graphic during the live feed, though I don't remember the specific numbers.

Emerson.F
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Re: 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix

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lebesset wrote:call me a cynic , but I often wondered if webber was kept because he was disadvantaged just the right amount by his size ie not enough to risk the constructors championship
I agree. Webber was always 0.2 tenths down (maybe more) just by his weight difference with Vettel.

Last edited by Emerson.F on Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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