2016 Grand Prix of Mexico - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 28-30 October

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Vettelswonmeover
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Mexico - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 28-30 October

Post by Vettelswonmeover » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:02 am

sosic2121 wrote:
Vettelswonmeover wrote:There was a time when FIA was closer to being the Ferrari International Assistance. Since the departure of Luca Cordero di Montezemolo, the FIA and stewards have become Red Bull's servants. Ricciardo has bumped into Kimi twice this year and into Rosberg 1 time (Hungarian GP i think) but has received no penalty. Max has been moving under braking soo many times that they had to introduce that Max Verstappen rule. Max has been overly aggressive with sooo many drivers this year but has not received any formal punishment. Only a soft tap on the knuckles i.e . a talking to by Charlie Whiting.
Wonder if the Vettel would have been penalized if he had not bad-mouthed Charlie.
The incident happened in the first place because of Max Verstappen's refusal to let Vettel through. He was basically backing Vettel into Ricciardo (after gaining an illegal advantage) and the FIA were just mute spectators.
Vettel did break the newly-minted rule and probably deserved a penalty. But, by giving him a 10 sec penalty and putting him behind Max was equivalent to the FIA validating Max Verstappen's unsportsmanlike behaviour. They could have given Vettel another penalty but at any rate, he should have been kept above Verstappen in the final standings. I would not mind RIC-3, VET-4 and VES-5.
+1
It's incredible what FIA did there.

For me the best part is investing Nico Rosberg for first corner incident!
Max crashed into him and pushed him wide, but that's perfectly fine!
The FIA investing Nico for the first corner incident was utter crap. Just shows the blatant inconsistency of the FIA.

Vettelswonmeover
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Mexico - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 28-30 October

Post by Vettelswonmeover » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:32 am

Fifty wrote:Anyone read mosely's book? It's amazing the things that are done in order to keep teams on the roster.
Red Bull has 4 cars and is not effected by the auto industry economics.

In a time when viewership outside the US is plummeting and manufacturers are laughing at the very thought of reentering F1 (and some thinkingnof leaving) FIA, FOM is going to do what ever Dr RB wants.
The problem is that Red Bull is a drinks company. They are not directly affected by the Auto Industry trends. They will land in a soup only if Renault pull out. But, by opting to run its factory team with a long term plan, Renault is not going to pull out of F1 soon. Red Bull with Newey and company are the closest challengers to Mercedes. RB leaving equals more drop in viewership. Plus rumours are flying around that RB will partner Audi for 2017 or 2018. Also, RB is going to get a mega bucks Exxon-Mobil sponsorship leading to BP sponsoring McLaren. All this just shows the commanding position RB is in. The FIA will have to be a little concessional to RB to retain its presently powerful services

strad
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Mexico - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 28-30 October

Post by strad » Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:35 pm

In short, the fact that Max received a penalty validates my points
Seriously???
You're kidding right?
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

Andres125sx
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Mexico - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 28-30 October

Post by Andres125sx » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:07 pm

Vettelswonmeover wrote:The fact that Verstappen received a penalty shows that he did gain an advantage by running off track. Had he given the place to Vettel at that time itself, he would have not got that penalty. This again brings me to the point that had Max let Vettel past at that time, the whole VET-RIC incident would not have happened.
In short, the fact that Max received a penalty validates my points
Last laps incidents are always investigated after the race, and since Max didn´t know for sure if he would receive a penalty, he didn´t let Vettel pass just in case he was not penalized. The penalty was obvious for most, but I understand his move, or lack of move. No driver will renounce to a podium if there´s the slightest posibility to keep it

Then Vettel didn´t manage the situation and put himself at same postion than Max (investigated after the race because of an incident in last laps), wich made him lost the podium. But that was only because of his own mistake

sosic2121
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Mexico - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 28-30 October

Post by sosic2121 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:55 am

Andres125sx wrote:
Vettelswonmeover wrote:The fact that Verstappen received a penalty shows that he did gain an advantage by running off track. Had he given the place to Vettel at that time itself, he would have not got that penalty. This again brings me to the point that had Max let Vettel past at that time, the whole VET-RIC incident would not have happened.
In short, the fact that Max received a penalty validates my points
Last laps incidents are always investigated after the race, and since Max didn´t know for sure if he would receive a penalty, he didn´t let Vettel pass just in case he was not penalized. The penalty was obvious for most, but I understand his move, or lack of move. No driver will renounce to a podium if there´s the slightest posibility to keep it

Then Vettel didn´t manage the situation and put himself at same postion than Max (investigated after the race because of an incident in last laps), wich made him lost the podium. But that was only because of his own mistake
I think you are right about max and not giving up that place, AFAIK RB decided that.
And about Vettel, you can't deny that max put Vettel in that situation. he clearly slowed him enough for ricciardo's attack.
So IMO RB played dirty and got away with. Again!

But it's not RB's fault they use opportunities FIA gives them.

Just remember belgium.
how fast was Charlie then when he instructed Kimi to give back the place that he earned on track, and max did what!?
I still don't understand why he had to give that place!?

Fifty
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Mexico - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 28-30 October

Post by Fifty » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:46 am

Vettelswonmeover wrote:
Fifty wrote:Anyone read mosely's book? It's amazing the things that are done in order to keep teams on the roster.
Red Bull has 4 cars and is not effected by the auto industry economics.

In a time when viewership outside the US is plummeting and manufacturers are laughing at the very thought of reentering F1 (and some thinkingnof leaving) FIA, FOM is going to do what ever Dr RB wants.
The problem is that Red Bull is a drinks company. They are not directly affected by the Auto Industry trends. They will land in a soup only if Renault pull out. But, by opting to run its factory team with a long term plan, Renault is not going to pull out of F1 soon. Red Bull with Newey and company are the closest challengers to Mercedes. RB leaving equals more drop in viewership. Plus rumours are flying around that RB will partner Audi for 2017 or 2018. Also, RB is going to get a mega bucks Exxon-Mobil sponsorship leading to BP sponsoring McLaren. All this just shows the commanding position RB is in. The FIA will have to be a little concessional to RB to retain its presently powerful services
Yep. We are on the same page. Except I don't think Audi will come back to F1. They have the deal to leave WEC and go to FE which gives them their battery Intel for future hybrid road cars. The cost of FE is minuscule in comparison to F1 (and the associated feeder teams).

I think that if merc or Ferrari leave, RB will be gone. Renault is riding a sales wave right now and can justify the spending fund.
I fear their will be only two engine manufactures as of 2020...Honda and Renault. And that's if Mclaren doesn't screw the pooch next year after Fernando leaves.
It will be the end of F1 and a big financial crash for liberty media and CVC.

No other manufacturer wants to spend the money for F1. The tech and advertising returns aren't there any more.

Fifty
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Mexico - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 28-30 October

Post by Fifty » Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:33 am

http://m.crash.net/f1/news/235015/1/wol ... cedes.html

Mercedes paving the pathway for leaving...

Andres125sx
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Mexico - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 28-30 October

Post by Andres125sx » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:38 am

sosic2121 wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:
Vettelswonmeover wrote:The fact that Verstappen received a penalty shows that he did gain an advantage by running off track. Had he given the place to Vettel at that time itself, he would have not got that penalty. This again brings me to the point that had Max let Vettel past at that time, the whole VET-RIC incident would not have happened.
In short, the fact that Max received a penalty validates my points
Last laps incidents are always investigated after the race, and since Max didn´t know for sure if he would receive a penalty, he didn´t let Vettel pass just in case he was not penalized. The penalty was obvious for most, but I understand his move, or lack of move. No driver will renounce to a podium if there´s the slightest posibility to keep it

Then Vettel didn´t manage the situation and put himself at same postion than Max (investigated after the race because of an incident in last laps), wich made him lost the podium. But that was only because of his own mistake
I think you are right about max and not giving up that place, AFAIK RB decided that.
And about Vettel, you can't deny that max put Vettel in that situation. he clearly slowed him enough for ricciardo's attack.
Agree, never said the contrary. But Vettel did the neccessary to make that RB strategy perfect :wink:
sosic2121 wrote:So IMO RB played dirty and got away with. Again!

But it's not RB's fault they use opportunities FIA gives them.
Exactly. In F1 using any loophole is basic. And I wouldn´t say it´s exactly dirty, just playing their cards

Manoah2u
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Mexico - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 28-30 October

Post by Manoah2u » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:15 pm

why on earth is this still a sticky
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

ChrisDanger
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Mexico - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 28-30 October

Post by ChrisDanger » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:54 pm

Manoah2u wrote:why on earth is this still a sticky
Just PM a mod. It's not automatic.

turbof1
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Mexico - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 28-30 October

Post by turbof1 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:22 pm

ChrisDanger wrote:
Manoah2u wrote:why on earth is this still a sticky
Just PM a mod. It's not automatic.
No need to PM a mod in this case. Done.
#AeroFrodo