2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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kalinka
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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No, Hungary is in CET+1. It's 2:40PM now.
CET is in winter , and now it is CEST (Central European Summer Time).
Edit > Technically it is still CET, but most people will google for "CET time now" or something like that
and that will give you a wrong answer (1h less )

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Big Mangalhit
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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TAG wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:33 pm
F1NAC wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:00 pm
Maybe Ferrari wont get any penalties this season regarding PU elements. They can rotate turbos.
Maybe turbochargers are just like drive axles that you can swap them left to right an get more life out of them? :mrgreen:

I laughed out loud reading that. Seriously, thank you.
They will probably face penalties especially if they want an update. But you shouldn't laugh like that otherwise you look a bit ignorant. What he meant was that from the 4 turbo they already used they can rotate the mileages between them and use the worse for FP. That way maybe they can witstand the whole season without penalties (although I also doubt it). Indeed that is probably what they are doing because none of them is out of commission.
"Replacing a turbo, or any other component, does not necessarily mean that you're scrapping the previous one, even more so when you are allowed 'free' updates, as the regs stipulate this year.

"So as long as you don't use more than four elements for each designed PU component, you're basically free to do [swaps] at your leisure.

"What we did sits within this criteria of rotation."

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TAG
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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Big Mangalhit wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:05 pm
They will probably face penalties especially if they want an update. But you shouldn't laugh like that otherwise you look a bit ignorant.
...like the drive axles, did you miss that part?

Ignorant? Not so much, maybe mean spirited, maybe cynical, maybe sarcastic. I laugh when I come across things that are funny. Live a little and most of all, don't be such a stick in the mud that you can't laugh at yourself. You're welcomed.

EDIT: there's more. If the rotation idea was something that was planned by Ferrari they'd be doing it to both cars, but only Vette's car has seen the various Turbos used. Additionally, when you go back and re-use old part you can't take advantage of any development made in the future so it's a disadvantage twice over. Lastly there's this:

During any single event, if a driver introduces more than one of a power unit element that is subject to a grid penalty, only the last element fitted may be used at subsequent events without further penalty.

So as soon as you introduce a fifth element, you're stuck with ONLY that one going forward for the remainder of the year.
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ChrisDanger
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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GoranF1 wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:35 pm
thanks...but i think Hungary is the CET.
Yeah, like kalinka said above, I just googled it and it seemed there was a 1 hour difference.

Anyway, Part 1:


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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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I still have it clear all weekend but just slightly warmer than I though, temps might get up to 30c track temperatures will be quite warm.
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ChrisDanger
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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Part 2:


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Big Mangalhit
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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TAG wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:15 pm


So as soon as you introduce a fifth element, you're stuck with ONLY that one going forward for the remainder of the year.
Again I think you are misinterpreting stuff.
"During any single event, if a driver introduces more than one of a power unit element that is subject to penalty, only the last element fitted may be used at subsequent events without further penalty," said an FIA statement issued in the wake of Wednesday's WMSC meeting in Paris.

"This is to prevent the stockpiling of spare power unit elements."
This means if they now fit 2 new TC (5th and 6th) in in the FP1 and FP2 they can only use the last one of those in further events without penalties. They can still go back to the previous TC (1-4) without penalties. Even tho I admit the wording is a bit misleading, but I think Honda already reverted back to some previous components after taking some penalties. Not sure.

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TAG
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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Big Mangalhit wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:37 pm
TAG wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:15 pm


So as soon as you introduce a fifth element, you're stuck with ONLY that one going forward for the remainder of the year.
Again I think you are misinterpreting stuff.
"During any single event, if a driver introduces more than one of a power unit element that is subject to penalty, only the last element fitted may be used at subsequent events without further penalty," said an FIA statement issued in the wake of Wednesday's WMSC meeting in Paris.

"This is to prevent the stockpiling of spare power unit elements."
This means if they now fit 2 new TC (5th and 6th) in in the FP1 and FP2 they can only use the last one of those in further events without penalties. They can still go back to the previous TC (1-4) without penalties. Even tho I admit the wording is a bit misleading, but I think Honda already reverted back to some previous components after taking some penalties. Not sure.
If they're introducing a new element though it's because they can't salvage the old ones, so it becomes a circular argument. Additionally there's always a penalty with each new element. I was pretty sure when reading the updated rules last year that they specifically mentioned any new elements would need to be used as the current race element, and that multiple new elements would be allowed only for practice sessions. Perhaps as you say it doesn't include the original four.
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ChrisDanger
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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TAG wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:34 pm
If they're introducing a new element though it's because they can't salvage the old ones, so it becomes a circular argument. Additionally there's always a penalty with each new element. I was pretty sure when reading the updated rules last year that they specifically mentioned any new elements would need to be used as the current race element, and that multiple new elements would be allowed only for practice sessions. Perhaps as you say it doesn't include the original four.
The regulation was reworded after Mercedes changed Hamilton's engine twice in one weekend, essentially stockpiling brand new engines so he'd have enough for the remainder of the season without taking further penalties. So whatever they did; you can't do that again.

That's the way I see it anyway.

dans79
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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ChrisDanger wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:40 pm


The regulation was reworded after Mercedes changed Hamilton's engine twice in one weekend, essentially stockpiling brand new engines so he'd have enough for the remainder of the season without taking further penalties.
Mercedes wasn't the only one, if Memory serves McLaren did it in 2015 as well. I think Ferrari might have also done it once in 2015.
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Restomaniac
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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TAG wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:34 pm
Big Mangalhit wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:37 pm
TAG wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:15 pm


So as soon as you introduce a fifth element, you're stuck with ONLY that one going forward for the remainder of the year.
Again I think you are misinterpreting stuff.
"During any single event, if a driver introduces more than one of a power unit element that is subject to penalty, only the last element fitted may be used at subsequent events without further penalty," said an FIA statement issued in the wake of Wednesday's WMSC meeting in Paris.

"This is to prevent the stockpiling of spare power unit elements."
This means if they now fit 2 new TC (5th and 6th) in in the FP1 and FP2 they can only use the last one of those in further events without penalties. They can still go back to the previous TC (1-4) without penalties. Even tho I admit the wording is a bit misleading, but I think Honda already reverted back to some previous components after taking some penalties. Not sure.
If they're introducing a new element though it's because they can't salvage the old ones, so it becomes a circular argument. Additionally there's always a penalty with each new element. I was pretty sure when reading the updated rules last year that they specifically mentioned any new elements would need to be used as the current race element, and that multiple new elements would be allowed only for practice sessions. Perhaps as you say it doesn't include the original four.
Indeed.
This may well hamstring Vettel. Mercedes can upgrade their TC if they can without attracting penalties. Ferrari now cannot, at least not on Vettel's car.

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TAG
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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dans79 wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:59 pm
ChrisDanger wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:40 pm


The regulation was reworded after Mercedes changed Hamilton's engine twice in one weekend, essentially stockpiling brand new engines so he'd have enough for the remainder of the season without taking further penalties.
Mercedes wasn't the only one, if Memory serves McLaren did it in 2015 as well. I think Ferrari might have also done it once in 2015.
Are you saying they only changed the regulation when it Hamilton did it? :mrgreen:
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Sevach
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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Ferrari spotted something they didn't like on their turbo in Bahrain, it caused Kimi's engine failure, as to not take chances they fitted a new turbo to Vettel's car for that race (this turbo was of the same model of the old flawed one).
For Sochi both Ferrari drivers got a new turbo(number 3), one that had fixed this fragility.

For Barcelona Vettel was suppoused to get engine number 2, turbo 3 was installed to it.
In FP3 this engine failed to get going, the team didn't have the time to do a full inspection ahead of qualifying and opted for a wholesale engine change and re-fitted engine number 1, but this time fitted with another new turbo (i assume same spec as Sochi).

I believe turbos 3 and 4 are very much alive (Kimi is still using his Sochi turbo) i'm not sure if they can make it to the end of the season but it's not impossible.

If they find a turbo development that gives them .2 or more do they take a penalty? Probably, i would.

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Big Mangalhit
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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TAG wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:34 pm


If they're introducing a new element though it's because they can't salvage the old ones, so it becomes a circular argument.
Not entirely truth. Very often teams introduce new elements because the old ones lose performance although they still work, especially detuned. So they can still use a bit older parts in races where engine performance isn't vital. Like here.
Last edited by Big Mangalhit on Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ChrisDanger
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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