Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.
Honda has probably learned a lot, but that doesn't mean RBR, and more specifically Newey will listen. He has a history of putting aero before all else and damn the consequences, and he has been doing it since his time at McLaren. Even in the v8 era reanult and rbr had issues because of how tightly Newey packed everything, for example in the 2012 European grand prix when Vettel retired from the lead, because the alternator overheated and failed do to inadequate cooling.
Red Bull didn't tell their champion driver back then either. And a similarly agitated prima donna.Phil wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:21 pmI think I have. If you go back to page 22, I was actually quick to blame Ocon for the incident in the heat of the race.TwanV wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:57 pmPhil, I don't know what's happened to you as you were very balanced all in all but it seems you've entrenched yourself in your stance on this (and maybe the drivers in question on the whole?). What you're saying here makes absolutely no sense to me as you don't take into account the opposite view.
That was at the time, during the race, when they simply showed a replay of the collision, without the proper context. Later, after watching the full onboard of Ocon and seeing how there was a 2-lap build-up to the collision/incident, I changed my mind, because I felt Ocon was absolutely in his right to unlap himself, he did it in the most appropriate place of the track (long DRS zone), he had a legitimate run up and even was ahead (not to mention at a advantage into T2) and I feel Max wasn't being cooperative and playing ball. If you don't play ball and make it hard for your opposition (and again, against a guy he wasn't even racing), then I'm sorry, but I think he needs to take a good long and hard look at himself.
There's a thing called 'cause' and 'effect'. The 'cause' of the incident IMO is not the T2 moment when Ocon was already there, it happened before when Max moved to the inside before T1 to defend and started "battling" Ocon for track position.
I also put a large portion of the blame at RedBull who failed to inform their driver that he had a very quick Force-India on his tail and that he should perhaps just let him by to not compromise his race. I sadly don't have the time to look for examples, but there are other instances where lapped traffic have come through the field overtaking cars that were a lap ahead. This because at times, the guys at the front will be nursing their tires home while the back of the field is coming through with fresher tires and fighting for scraps. It has happened before, it's just that no one realizes it because it rarely gets shown or commented because it's really a non-issue.
I think a lot has to do with attitude and bad judgement here. At the end of the day, Max really could have played it safe and not get rattled by someone who wasn't relevant to his race or his position.
You obviously didn't watch the on board, because he was catching him or holding station with him in sector 2 where the Redbull should have been far superior.
Thats not quite true. Last season Max retired 4 times through car issues out of his control.Sieper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:52 pmTAG, Max had a Ricciardo 2018 season back in 2017, his reaction was try harder next race (only to see his car come to a smoldering stop yet again) only at one point I heard him say something along the lines that he didn't know if he could continue onwards. But in fact he kept on driving his hart out all season. Just like Ricci has done this year (despite a few less then optimal interviews, and admittedly, Ricci has now already signed at a different team so his mindset will be different ).
Red Bull didn't tell their champion driver back then either. And a similarly agitated prima donna.
Don't smile at max when you talk to him, he apparently can't handle it and will become enraged."I just wanted to look for him and ask 'what was going on, how could something like this happen?'
"But he immediately answered 'I was faster than you' and said it with such a smile on his face.
If it is temporary, then there was blue flags for Ocon. Ocon had the right and even moral for unlap himself. And let me tell you, i wanted Max to win and maybe the constructor title would be decided at the last race.Alexf1 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:07 pmBecause it's a slower Force India with a temporary tyre advantage. Not a Ferrari or Mercedes