2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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TAG
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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NathanOlder wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:21 pm
Tzk wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:15 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 am
People may be writing him off on the basis of one race, but I've seen enough from him to believe he has a lot to offer. His main issue is his headspace. Once he gets hold of that, the speed will come.
He got the headspace issue since 2017 and there's no obvious solution in sight. I'm not sure if he can resolve this faster than LeClerc being on the rise ;)
I can't see him getting his headspace in order, certainly not anytime soon. And by the time he does, if he does, it will probably be too late.

If he cracks and folds while being beaten by the best (regarded as the best) then how can he handle being beaten by a kid in the same car.
Alonso knows all about those optics.
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Phil wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:33 pm
I don't think there has to be a direct correlation between "winning" (or outperforming your team-mate) and your salary. There's more to a driver than what he delivers on Saturday and Sunday. There's PR, marketing, there's feedback and car development. Not disputing that performing on the relevant days isn't the most important aspect, I'm just saying it's not only that. A Hamilton, like it or not, brings a lot to a brand like Mercedes even if he doesn't win the championship. Much more than that, he is a known quantity in what he brings. Just because he got beaten in 2016 didn't make him less of a valuable asset to the team and it changed zero of his value and pay.

As for number one and number two - as has been said numerous times, even if there are, the best way to change that is to simply perform better. Leclerc did exactly that in Bahrain by outperforming Vettel on the track. It's the same solution for Bottas too if he wants to be the main championship contender for Mercedes. If however one driver ends up with significantly more points than the other and has the more consistent performances to his name, then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where the team might focus its championship ambitions. This also applies to if Bottas for whatever reason ends up with a sizeable advantage against Hamilton half way through the season. Of course, it also depends how far the closest competitor is and perhaps some of the context, but the point still stands.

Teams can't control who of their drivers are quicker or faster. They may have certain expectations towards their drivers, but at the end of the day, there's limited control. And to manipulate one over the other would be akin to shooting themselves in the foot. So no, there's nothing that stops a driver beating his team-mate if not for simply performing better...
I think the clearest example of a team shifting their number one position or removing the number one driver is Kimi during and after the 2008 season. As for Massa, Ferrari (or Philip Morris) thought he was to light to have as a number one so they brought in Alonso early and made Kimi the best paid non driver ever.

As for Hamilton-Rosberg, I don't think Rosberg really outperformed Hamilton but was more to do with his car breaking down in the early stages of the year and a breakdown in the second half of the season. Plus he was helped in his status with the retirement of Rosberg, else there would have been quite an awkward 2017.

If or when Leclerc has enough speed, consistency and maturity to be number one at Ferrari, they will drop Vettel. Look at RedBull how they used Ricciardo for a while to let Verstappen mature into his current postion.

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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Tzk wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:15 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 am
People may be writing him off on the basis of one race, but I've seen enough from him to believe he has a lot to offer. His main issue is his headspace. Once he gets hold of that, the speed will come.
He got the headspace issue since 2017 and there's no obvious solution in sight. I'm not sure if he can resolve this faster than LeClerc being on the rise ;)

Brazil 2012.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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As I'm not a vettel fan, I struggle to remember the epic drives he has had, other than the 2012 Brazilian Grand Prix.

What others were there in his dominant Car years ?
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TAG
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:04 am
Tzk wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:15 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 am
People may be writing him off on the basis of one race, but I've seen enough from him to believe he has a lot to offer. His main issue is his headspace. Once he gets hold of that, the speed will come.
He got the headspace issue since 2017 and there's no obvious solution in sight. I'm not sure if he can resolve this faster than LeClerc being on the rise ;)

Brazil 2012.
Azerbaijan 2017
Countdown to 91: 7 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 am
People may be writing him off on the basis of one race, but I've seen enough from him to believe he has a lot to offer. His main issue is his headspace. Once he gets hold of that, the speed will come.
I wrote him off because of the past two seasons and some earlier crap as well. (To be honest I wrote him off far before the start of this season)
TAG wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:45 pm
Azerbaijan 2017
Good one. :)
Though his first win was pretty great with the TR.

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Juzh
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Trying something new here to give a it more perspective, since you can't see much from the front wing cam. Norris continues to destroy people round the outside of T4.




Perez dumps half the battery on the start/finish straight (wastegate audiable as well, so really going all in) to get passed magnussen who also has drs. (open link in youtube - embedded play won't work)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXj1B1Ml_bQ

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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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mzso wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:00 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 am
People may be writing him off on the basis of one race, but I've seen enough from him to believe he has a lot to offer. His main issue is his headspace. Once he gets hold of that, the speed will come.
I wrote him off because of the past two seasons and some earlier crap as well. (To be honest I wrote him off far before the start of this season)
TAG wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:45 pm
Azerbaijan 2017
Good one. :)
Though his first win was pretty great with the TR.
Yes. Just like Lewis was written off after 2011. Canada 2008?

Fans and journalists that sway with the wind have no respect in my eyes. Sportsmen, just like us go through ups and downs. We mistake them for gods and forget that they are after all human.

Hamilton and Vettel were cut out of the same cloth.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

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siskue2005
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:22 am
mzso wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:00 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 am
People may be writing him off on the basis of one race, but I've seen enough from him to believe he has a lot to offer. His main issue is his headspace. Once he gets hold of that, the speed will come.
I wrote him off because of the past two seasons and some earlier crap as well. (To be honest I wrote him off far before the start of this season)
TAG wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:45 pm
Azerbaijan 2017
Good one. :)
Though his first win was pretty great with the TR.
Yes. Just like Lewis was written off after 2011. Canada 2008?

Fans and journalists that sway with the wind have no respect in my eyes. Sportsmen, just like us go through ups and downs. We mistake them for gods and forget that they are after all human.

Hamilton and Vettel were cut out of the same cloth.
One race in Canada 2008 where Lewis didnt see the red light is now compared to Vetel's 2017 2018 and 2019 spins and failures?
In 2011 also it was clear how many mechanical failures Lewis, it was nothing to do with his failures or spins as a driver.
Surely Lewis and Vettel are not cut out from the same cloth!

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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:22 am
mzso wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:00 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 am
People may be writing him off on the basis of one race, but I've seen enough from him to believe he has a lot to offer. His main issue is his headspace. Once he gets hold of that, the speed will come.
I wrote him off because of the past two seasons and some earlier crap as well. (To be honest I wrote him off far before the start of this season)
TAG wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:45 pm
Azerbaijan 2017
Good one. :)
Though his first win was pretty great with the TR.
Yes. Just like Lewis was written off after 2011. Canada 2008?

Fans and journalists that sway with the wind have no respect in my eyes. Sportsmen, just like us go through ups and downs. We mistake them for gods and forget that they are after all human.

Hamilton and Vettel were cut out of the same cloth.
Nah, for me, Vettel is at his strongest when he’s in the lead, unchallenged where Hamilton is a hunter. If Vettel is put under pressure (not just the last few years but even for instance that Canada race that Button won) he makes mistakes.

The coming GP’s are going to be interesting. Last season Vettel was in the lead and Hamilton hunting. This year it’s the other way round plus he is under pressure from his teammate.

Let’s see if he can keep his head cool the coming month

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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There´s some video wich shows Verstappen-Sainz incident? I find it suspicious that they didn´t show any replay... despite under investigation...

The conspiracy theorist in me is saying that´s the proof it was Max fault, but since he´s the protege of both RBR and FIA they didn´t show it :roll:

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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I'dd like to believe it, but to me, it looked like Sainz was well clear as they went in to the braking zone, Sainz had the ideal line, but Max did what Max does, and braked very late, and Sainz did not expect him to be there. Unfortunately for Carlos , it wrecked his race. Max will never let a place go, even if it has no meaning to his race, Ocon last year in Brazil, Stroll in Bahrain last week. He still defended against Stroll who was on newer tyres and a lap down #-o #-o

Max will never learn, he fights too hard ALL the time, fortunately he only wrecked Sainz's race, but he regularly hurts his own chances and never seems to learn.

But for me , I feel Sainz was more to blame as he turned in to Max not expecting Max to be there, but Max was. If carlos did a Norris and just run around the outside of Turn 4, it would have been great to see how the race unfolded between Mclaren and RedBull.
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siskue2005
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:41 pm
As I'm not a vettel fan, I struggle to remember the epic drives he has had, other than the 2012 Brazilian Grand Prix.

What others were there in his dominant Car years ?
2012 Brazilian gp is not a epic drive, rather a f$#k up in the start and coming through the field with a dominant car and doing bare minimum possible to secure the WDC

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:34 am
I'dd like to believe it, but to me, it looked like Sainz was well clear as they went in to the braking zone, Sainz had the ideal line, but Max did what Max does, and braked very late, and Sainz did not expect him to be there. Unfortunately for Carlos , it wrecked his race. Max will never let a place go, even if it has no meaning to his race, Ocon last year in Brazil, Stroll in Bahrain last week. He still defended against Stroll who was on newer tyres and a lap down #-o #-o

Max will never learn, he fights too hard ALL the time, fortunately he only wrecked Sainz's race, but he regularly hurts his own chances and never seems to learn.

But for me , I feel Sainz was more to blame as he turned in to Max not expecting Max to be there, but Max was. If carlos did a Norris and just run around the outside of Turn 4, it would have been great to see how the race unfolded between Mclaren and RedBull.
I tend to agree a little and disagree a little. I think Sainz was fully ahead of Verstappen and was entitled to cut across. Max was just being Max and decided to brake later than ever and used Sainz as a braking mechanism. He could have easily been the one left with the puncture. He fails to realise that he just needs to keep himself in the frame and if the Red Bull comes alive in the second half of the year, he's there in that frame to mount a title challenge.

We tend to be result oriented but I thought his duel with Sainz was worse than Vettel's spin because he got the result that he was meant to get. I'll again say what I said at the start of the year- Max and Seb need to maximise their bad weekends because Lewis will. That's where he wins the championship. Seb has already thrown away 8 points, Max nearly threw his weekend away as well. And before the people who love to bash Seb jump on me about him throwing away 16 points, he just did not have the speed to keep Lewis at bay in Bahrain. The Ferrari did, as demonstrated by Leclerc. Lewis had a poor start in Australia but he didn't compound the misery after his floor damage and lost the 18 points he had. That's his underlying strength. He realises when he's beat and he makes the best out of those situations. Seb and Max on the other hand overdrive and behave like the championship is on the line for 4-5 extra points. They all add up at the end of the year.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:02 am
The conspiracy theorist in me is saying that´s the proof it was Max fault, but since he´s the protege of both RBR and FIA they didn´t show it :roll:
Or both you and Sainz are Spanish. :wink:
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