2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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roon
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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"That is not the way, naturally, that I wanted to win. But I would have been past him had it not been for that wall there, so..."

Thanks to Hamilton & Pirro we now have a second Wall of Champions at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve. :lol:

dans79
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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roon wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:40 am
Was already answered in previous posts. I said twice before it could have been down to traction or reaction limits. If not limited by those, then it may well be considered an error to choose to drive toward the area between the wall-bound car and the wall.
No, you haven't answered the question so I'll quote it for you!
dans79 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:16 am
when specifically is Lewis supposed to make this judgment?
you keep saying that Lewis should have predicted were Vettel was going to go, when was he supposed to make this prediction?

When Vettel initially lost control of his car? After his first correction? After his second correction? After his third correction? When he starts to rejoin the track? This correction after rejoining the track?

all of the above show why your point of view is ridiculous, and why the rules specifically state that the car that left the track is responsible for rejoining it safely.
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roon
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:51 am
when specifically is Lewis supposed to make this judgment?
When approaching the incident, if feasible. This answer is implied in the previous three statements. I present it more literally now.

dans79 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:51 am
you keep saying that Lewis should have predicted were Vettel was going to go...
Never said that, but I did imply that he might have been able to. I presented multiple hypotheticals. You seem particularly upset about one of them.

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TAG
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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Remember in Baku people were actually making excuses that Vettel would never intentionally drive into Hamilton, his hand slipped, whatever. I'm rolling with the rationalizations from the same people that claimed his steering wheel must have slipped back then.

People see what they want to see and it's all being compounded by a decade of Ferrari's inability to win a championship and Vettel's capitulation over the last couple of seasons. Clearly it was Hamilton's fault. I'm done for this race thread.

Looking forward to the last jewel in the Triple French Crown.
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Scorpaguy
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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Wow...I would have expected a bit more love for Vet than what seems to be here. Was it an "unsafe re-entry"...you bet it was, and any of the other 19 drivers on the grid today would have done the exact same thing Vet did.

Did Vet crack...or did he just suffer the inevitability of a slip while driving on the edge in what everyone was saying a few days ago was an inferior car?

I am no Vet fanboy, but he drove a heck of a race for all but one corner...and I believe had one less crash this weekend than did Ham.

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djos
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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So a pretty decent race overall - Ric and Hulk did a great job to bring home decent points for Renault.

I feel sorry for Seb, I don't really like him much and I'm not a Lewis fanboi either, however, Seb got robbed by the stewards today - that was a shocker of a decision imo.
Last edited by djos on Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Ringleheim
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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These comments are hilarious, and embarrassing.

I think it was a racing incident and no penalty was in order.

I like to see drivers encouraged to mix it up on track, but this does the opposite.

There is so much wrong about modern F1 you can just add this to the list.

roon
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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Image

Ultimately, this guy is the only one who will ever know what truly happened. He's the only one with a real on the ground perspective. Aside from badgering the stewards, I'm not sure we can definitively ferret out whether or not the Hamster weaseled his way onto the podium, although it's usually pretty easy to smell a rat.

I don't have a bone to pick here, I just think it was a pretty Mickey Mouse decision by the Stuarts. Maybe it doesn't matter one way or the otter, but we shouldn't just be lemmings when it comes to making our own assessments. These cars are always squirrely on the grass, the throttle becomes a real hare trigger. It is unfurtunate that Vettel became the guinea pig in all this.

There was a honey badger on the track as well who may beavery insightful, but he was chinchilling in the mid-field, far from vole position, and when asked about the incident, nonchalantly replied: "Don't give a ---."

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DiogoBrand
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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Image

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GPR-A
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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FIA is responsible for all the uproar. They never fixed the problem of stewardship and kept allowing stewards to make inconsistent decisions. Stewardship should be agnostic of any kind of emotions and keep sticking to rules and dish out penalties, every single time there is a violation. In the name of "allowing hard racing", these guys have made a joke of stewardship. Stewardship SHOULD BE mechanical. In this race, stewards did the right job and it looked wrong for the past sins.

Once again, the race proved what a relentless hunter Lewis is. Unbelievable focus.

Bottas 2.0 is in fact just a blip. He is inherently the same driver. He pales away in races.

With all this noise, nobody seems to have noticed that, following a car has become much better and the tyres are holding on for both cars to allow close racing.

DarkSurferZA
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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Phil wrote:
DarkSurferZA wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:48 pm
Well, I think there is something wrong with the stewards office when all the commentators unanimously disagree with a decision.
Would it change the incident in any way, if Mercedes had not won the last 6 races and dominated this season this far? If they had been the underdog? In a way it's funny - many hoped (me included) that Vettel and Ferrari would bring the race home today. But nevertheless, it doesn't change the fact that in the end, he made a mistake, completely left the track and rejoined the track (partially out of control) and in doing so, blocking Hamilton at the same time. If there had not been a wall, or the track been wider, Hamilton would have easily passed. He didn't because he avoided a collision. If this had happened at i.e. the hair-pin - same result. There's no way he would have held on to his position.

The stewards job is not to take into account who should have won the race or how many points are at stake. They should judge the incident independently and in complete isolation, which IMO they did.

I feel gutted for Vettel, I really am, but simply because a Ferrari win would have been marvellous for the sport does not change the fact that he did make a mistake under severe pressure and was lucky not to hit a wall or cause a collision with Lewis. Yet he still rejoined in a way that caused the driver he was racing and who forced him into that error in the first place to take avoiding action.

You make a mistake, you pay. Hamilton locked up multiple times at the hair pin and lost time. That's the way it is. I have no doubt, if the gap had been larger and Hamilton had not been on Vettels tail, the incident would have gone unpunished. Yet the error was a direct result of the pressure Hamilton put Vettel under and thus, it wouldn't be fair to let that slide without consequence simply because we all wanted Vettel to win.

We can't simply bend or change the rules because we wanted "a race". Legitimate and authentic racing requires rules and these rules are for the safety and for the fairness of all who participate. I feel most who are slamming the stewards about the rules are doing so from an emotional point of view and not because it was without merit.
I do t think Vettel should escape a penalty because it's good for the sport, or because it's popular. I think the penalty wasn't there for the issuing in the first place. SV had oversteer when he hit the kerb rejoining the circuit.

I think it is unfair to say SV could have avoided the oversteer by staying off the throttle. It's not something they practice, and it's not part of racing (to instinctively let your opponent passed).

We have seen a few decision taken lightly in the spirit of "more racing", but this wasn't a bias, this was the incorrect decision. Even with the frame by frame during the post race activities, not a single commentator or race car driver agreed with the decision. Even Lewis saying he didn't make the decision during the post race interviews after seeing it on screen should be enough to say there is inconsistency in terms of the decision making.

I don't blame any driver, or any team, but it just can't be that even with frame by frame, so many people (with racing experience) disagree with a decision. It just can't be that the decision making is as inconsistent as it is (Max at Monaco, vs Seb at Canada). It's either got to be hard but fair, to the letter of the rule book, or reasonable and with some understanding of the on tract situation.

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Carl Mccoy
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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Bottas 2.0 is just illusion.

roon
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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DarkSurferZA
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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My point is, there can't be so many racing drivers who are so far against an fia decision for the decision to be regarded as reasonable.

Anyway, at least the MotoGP is still good, I mean, you can't screw that up by having vague aerodynamic winglet rules can you... **Laughs nervously**

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LM10
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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