2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

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Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
639
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

Post

sosic2121 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:52 am
_cerber1 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:16 am
ispano6 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:34 am
Just rewatched this race and was reminded that Leclerc won his first race with an illegal engine. Too bad his record is tainted, but lucky his results and points weren't wiped.
Nowhere was it claimed that Ferrari's PU was illegal. #-o
One wonders how many championships were won with illegal oil burning engines...
Oh that's easy - none. =D>
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

sosic2121
sosic2121
19
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:18 am
sosic2121 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:52 am
_cerber1 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:16 am

Nowhere was it claimed that Ferrari's PU was illegal. #-o
One wonders how many championships were won with illegal oil burning engines...
Oh that's easy - none. =D>
I'm glad that you solved that dilemma :lol:

holeindalip
holeindalip
14
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:58 am
Location: Decatur,IL USA

Re: 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

Post

sosic2121 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:52 am
_cerber1 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:16 am
ispano6 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:34 am
Just rewatched this race and was reminded that Leclerc won his first race with an illegal engine. Too bad his record is tainted, but lucky his results and points weren't wiped.
Nowhere was it claimed that Ferrari's PU was illegal. #-o
One wonders how many championships were won with illegal oil burning engines...
I don’t know where you guys keep getting this info on oil burning from the mercs, Ferrari were the ones with a secondary oil tank onboard and lost performance when it was removed, same as with the secondary fuel flow sensor... they keep making technical directives and yet merc are still class of the field on power units.

Carl Mccoy
Carl Mccoy
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Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:31 pm

Re: 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

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And Mercedes still smoking...... :-)

User avatar
FrukostScones
193
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 4:41 pm
Location: European Union

Re: 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

Post

holeindalip wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:16 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:52 am
_cerber1 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:16 am

Nowhere was it claimed that Ferrari's PU was illegal. #-o
One wonders how many championships were won with illegal oil burning engines...
I don’t know where you guys keep getting this info on oil burning from the mercs, Ferrari were the ones with a secondary oil tank onboard and lost performance when it was removed, same as with the secondary fuel flow sensor... they keep making technical directives and yet merc are still class of the field on power units.
ask Silo.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

zibby43
zibby43
425
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

Post

Carl Mccoy wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:24 pm
And Mercedes still smoking...... :-)
I didn't see any of the Merc-powered cars smoking at Silverstone 1 or 2. Nor did I see any of them smoking in Spain.

In any event, it's irrelevant, as several have pointed out that the smoke was being vented from the crankcase breather.

The place where the Ferraris started smoking in 2018, when the breather was introduced.

Photos courtesy @ScarbsTech:

Image

Image

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
639
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

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Carl Mccoy wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:24 pm
And Mercedes still smoking...... :-)
From a breather. The breather is from the bottom of the engine, not the cylinders. Hence, any smoke has not come from the burning of oil.

Facts over fandom. 8)
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

sosic2121
sosic2121
19
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

Post

holeindalip wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:16 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:52 am
_cerber1 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:16 am

Nowhere was it claimed that Ferrari's PU was illegal. #-o
One wonders how many championships were won with illegal oil burning engines...
I don’t know where you guys keep getting this info on oil burning from the mercs, Ferrari were the ones with a secondary oil tank onboard and lost performance when it was removed, same as with the secondary fuel flow sensor... they keep making technical directives and yet merc are still class of the field on power units.
2017 1.2L > 0.9L and the way they circumvent that rule, basically cheated.

dans79
dans79
248
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

Post

sosic2121 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:52 am
2017 1.2L > 0.9L and the way they circumvent that rule, basically cheated.
You are going to have to do better than a cryptic one liner, if you want people to see this as anything more than sour grapes!
161 97 92 6

sosic2121
sosic2121
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

Post

dans79 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:04 am
sosic2121 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:52 am
2017 1.2L > 0.9L and the way they circumvent that rule, basically cheated.
You are going to have to do better than a cryptic one liner, if you want people to see this as anything more than sour grapes!
"Aug.26 (GMM) A spat has reportedly broken out behind the scenes between title protagonists Mercedes and Ferrari.

Auto Bild reports that Mercedes surprised its Italian rival by launching a new engine specification at Spa Francorchamps.

The controversy surrounds the recent ‘oil in fuel’ saga, with the FIA having declared that as of the next race at Monza, every engine can only consume a maximum of 0.9 litres.

But Mercedes, Ferrari and the other engine manufacturers had reportedly entered into a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ that any upgrade released before Monza would comply with the new 0.9 litre rule.

However, it emerges that Mercedes’ brand new engine at Spa was in fact upgraded according to the existing rules allowing 1.2 litres of oil consumption — therefore breaking the ‘gentleman’s agreement’.

“Ferrari asked before Spa if any teams were planning new engines, but the answer was no,” reported Germany’s Sport Bild.

Auto Bild said the FIA has confirmed that Mercedes did not breach any official rule."
https://www.newsonf1.com/2017/08/merced ... nt-report/

User avatar
siskue2005
183
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

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sosic2121 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:19 am
dans79 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:04 am
sosic2121 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:52 am
2017 1.2L > 0.9L and the way they circumvent that rule, basically cheated.
You are going to have to do better than a cryptic one liner, if you want people to see this as anything more than sour grapes!
"Aug.26 (GMM) A spat has reportedly broken out behind the scenes between title protagonists Mercedes and Ferrari.

Auto Bild reports that Mercedes surprised its Italian rival by launching a new engine specification at Spa Francorchamps.

The controversy surrounds the recent ‘oil in fuel’ saga, with the FIA having declared that as of the next race at Monza, every engine can only consume a maximum of 0.9 litres.

But Mercedes, Ferrari and the other engine manufacturers had reportedly entered into a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ that any upgrade released before Monza would comply with the new 0.9 litre rule.

However, it emerges that Mercedes’ brand new engine at Spa was in fact upgraded according to the existing rules allowing 1.2 litres of oil consumption — therefore breaking the ‘gentleman’s agreement’.

“Ferrari asked before Spa if any teams were planning new engines, but the answer was no,” reported Germany’s Sport Bild.

Auto Bild said the FIA has confirmed that Mercedes did not breach any official rule."
https://www.newsonf1.com/2017/08/merced ... nt-report/
You need to know the difference between Cheating and Out smarting you competition.
What they did was Fully LEGAL.

User avatar
Big Tea
125
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

Post

sosic2121 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:19 am
dans79 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:04 am
sosic2121 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:52 am
2017 1.2L > 0.9L and the way they circumvent that rule, basically cheated.
You are going to have to do better than a cryptic one liner, if you want people to see this as anything more than sour grapes!
"Aug.26 (GMM) A spat has reportedly broken out behind the scenes between title protagonists Mercedes and Ferrari.

Auto Bild reports that Mercedes surprised its Italian rival by launching a new engine specification at Spa Francorchamps.

The controversy surrounds the recent ‘oil in fuel’ saga, with the FIA having declared that as of the next race at Monza, every engine can only consume a maximum of 0.9 litres.

But Mercedes, Ferrari and the other engine manufacturers had reportedly entered into a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ that any upgrade released before Monza would comply with the new 0.9 litre rule.

However, it emerges that Mercedes’ brand new engine at Spa was in fact upgraded according to the existing rules allowing 1.2 litres of oil consumption — therefore breaking the ‘gentleman’s agreement’.

“Ferrari asked before Spa if any teams were planning new engines, but the answer was no,” reported Germany’s Sport Bild.

Auto Bild said the FIA has confirmed that Mercedes did not breach any official rule."
https://www.newsonf1.com/2017/08/merced ... nt-report/
Was there any report of what the 'actual' oil use of that engine was?
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

sosic2121
sosic2121
19
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

Post

siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:29 am
sosic2121 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:19 am
dans79 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:04 am


You are going to have to do better than a cryptic one liner, if you want people to see this as anything more than sour grapes!
"Aug.26 (GMM) A spat has reportedly broken out behind the scenes between title protagonists Mercedes and Ferrari.

Auto Bild reports that Mercedes surprised its Italian rival by launching a new engine specification at Spa Francorchamps.

The controversy surrounds the recent ‘oil in fuel’ saga, with the FIA having declared that as of the next race at Monza, every engine can only consume a maximum of 0.9 litres.

But Mercedes, Ferrari and the other engine manufacturers had reportedly entered into a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ that any upgrade released before Monza would comply with the new 0.9 litre rule.

However, it emerges that Mercedes’ brand new engine at Spa was in fact upgraded according to the existing rules allowing 1.2 litres of oil consumption — therefore breaking the ‘gentleman’s agreement’.

“Ferrari asked before Spa if any teams were planning new engines, but the answer was no,” reported Germany’s Sport Bild.

Auto Bild said the FIA has confirmed that Mercedes did not breach any official rule."
https://www.newsonf1.com/2017/08/merced ... nt-report/
You need to know the difference between Cheating and Out smarting you competition.
What they did was Fully LEGAL.
It was as dirty as it gets. Using oil as fuel was not allowed so none of the engines was exactly legal.
One has to wonder how many dirty little holes mercedes has exploited over the years, or even worse how many times FIA let das happen.
But I guess that's in their company's DNA so it's OK.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/24/2088 ... ating-fine

sosic2121
sosic2121
19
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

Post

Big Tea wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:24 am
sosic2121 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:19 am
dans79 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:04 am


You are going to have to do better than a cryptic one liner, if you want people to see this as anything more than sour grapes!
"Aug.26 (GMM) A spat has reportedly broken out behind the scenes between title protagonists Mercedes and Ferrari.

Auto Bild reports that Mercedes surprised its Italian rival by launching a new engine specification at Spa Francorchamps.

The controversy surrounds the recent ‘oil in fuel’ saga, with the FIA having declared that as of the next race at Monza, every engine can only consume a maximum of 0.9 litres.

But Mercedes, Ferrari and the other engine manufacturers had reportedly entered into a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ that any upgrade released before Monza would comply with the new 0.9 litre rule.

However, it emerges that Mercedes’ brand new engine at Spa was in fact upgraded according to the existing rules allowing 1.2 litres of oil consumption — therefore breaking the ‘gentleman’s agreement’.

“Ferrari asked before Spa if any teams were planning new engines, but the answer was no,” reported Germany’s Sport Bild.

Auto Bild said the FIA has confirmed that Mercedes did not breach any official rule."
https://www.newsonf1.com/2017/08/merced ... nt-report/
Was there any report of what the 'actual' oil use of that engine was?
None that I know of.
It was ending in combustion chamber, so it was producing power anyway.

User avatar
Big Tea
125
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

Post

sosic2121 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:29 am
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:24 am
sosic2121 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:19 am

"Aug.26 (GMM) A spat has reportedly broken out behind the scenes between title protagonists Mercedes and Ferrari.

Auto Bild reports that Mercedes surprised its Italian rival by launching a new engine specification at Spa Francorchamps.

The controversy surrounds the recent ‘oil in fuel’ saga, with the FIA having declared that as of the next race at Monza, every engine can only consume a maximum of 0.9 litres.

But Mercedes, Ferrari and the other engine manufacturers had reportedly entered into a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ that any upgrade released before Monza would comply with the new 0.9 litre rule.

However, it emerges that Mercedes’ brand new engine at Spa was in fact upgraded according to the existing rules allowing 1.2 litres of oil consumption — therefore breaking the ‘gentleman’s agreement’.

“Ferrari asked before Spa if any teams were planning new engines, but the answer was no,” reported Germany’s Sport Bild.

Auto Bild said the FIA has confirmed that Mercedes did not breach any official rule."
https://www.newsonf1.com/2017/08/merced ... nt-report/
Was there any report of what the 'actual' oil use of that engine was?
None that I know of.
It was ending in combustion chamber, so it was producing power anyway.
What I mean is we were never told if it met the newer reg anyway or if it continued burning at the earlier rate.
I think there is no doubt it was being burned, but if it was reduced to conform with the newer limit it is not the same as breaking an agreement, even if it was a new unit
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery