2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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oT v1
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Wouter wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:03 pm
Shrieker wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:53 pm
Do you guys think Romain should be penalized for what he did ? Or was he already penalized ? I say give him a race ban.
A penalty? A racing ban? Everyone is happy that he is still alive, because that is a very great miracle and then you start talking about a race ban? You really don't have an ounce of feeling in your body, have you?!
Yeah shrieker now is not the time, you are correct but I think the penalty has been applied naturally.

If Romain had put Kvyat in the wall instead of himself then the knives would be out, and quite rightly. I wouldn’t like to imagine that situation.

It comes down to the move, if Kvyat wasn’t there then Romain makes up 4 or 5 places on the crazy gang ahead and it’s a sharp/nifty manoeuvre....of course his awareness has been his undoing and the rest is history.

(And imo if Mr ‘you must always leave a space’ had left a space in spa then Romain wouldn’t have this stereotype hanging around his neck. Also the wet Sepang one with Schumacher was 50/50 too. Just my 8yr old gripe)
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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oT v1 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:41 pm


(And imo if Mr ‘you must always leave a space’ had left a space in spa then Romain wouldn’t have this stereotype hanging around his neck. Also the wet Sepang one with Schumacher was 50/50 too. Just my 8yr old gripe)
Spa 2012? The one where he just cut across the entire track and basically ran in to Hamilton who was minding his own business? There was no one near him, no one in front of him. He just went yeehaw! across the track.
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:57 pm
oT v1 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:41 pm


(And imo if Mr ‘you must always leave a space’ had left a space in spa then Romain wouldn’t have this stereotype hanging around his neck. Also the wet Sepang one with Schumacher was 50/50 too. Just my 8yr old gripe)
Spa 2012? The one where he just cut across the entire track and basically ran in to Hamilton who was minding his own business? There was no one near him, no one in front of him. He just went yeehaw! across the track.
Just rewatched it a few times, wow ok that was burnt into my memory a very different way.

I retract my comment

Sorry gents carry on
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JRindt
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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oT v1 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:41 pm

(And imo if Mr ‘you must always leave a space’ had left a space in spa then Romain wouldn’t have this stereotype hanging around his neck. Also the wet Sepang one with Schumacher was 50/50 too. Just my 8yr old gripe)
Oh please...! Grosjean basically pulled the same move in spa 2012 as he did yesterday. He cut across a car aggressively without clearing it and ended up in the wall. Alonso was nowhere near him and it wouldn’t have mattered a diddly squat if left space or not.

What baffles me is that he got the “driver of the day” yesterday. At the risk of me playing the Devil’s advocate, it should’ve gone to Perez or Sainz.

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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:57 pm
oT v1 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:41 pm


(And imo if Mr ‘you must always leave a space’ had left a space in spa then Romain wouldn’t have this stereotype hanging around his neck. Also the wet Sepang one with Schumacher was 50/50 too. Just my 8yr old gripe)
Spa 2012? The one where he just cut across the entire track and basically ran in to Hamilton who was minding his own business? There was no one near him, no one in front of him. He just went yeehaw! across the track.
I lost it at the last sentence.

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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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LM10 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:20 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:57 pm
oT v1 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:41 pm


(And imo if Mr ‘you must always leave a space’ had left a space in spa then Romain wouldn’t have this stereotype hanging around his neck. Also the wet Sepang one with Schumacher was 50/50 too. Just my 8yr old gripe)
Spa 2012? The one where he just cut across the entire track and basically ran in to Hamilton who was minding his own business? There was no one near him, no one in front of him. He just went yeehaw! across the track.
I lost it at the last sentence.
?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:58 pm
Mudflap wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:17 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:45 pm


I noticed during the race one of the drivers was making 4 different adjustments for a corner.
Well, I say I noticed, I did not, it was the commentary by 2 ex drivers who mentioned it.
This is a possible area that makes no difference to spectators which could be removed, and the car set up for the whole lap. We may then see some cars better on one type of corner and another car or driver on a different corner and they may be able to overtake.

This combined with the trend to modify corners so cars go as fast as possible is removing the cornering component from drivers. Tighter sharper corners that need to be driven round could increase lap and reduce the trafic jams in the race and qualli where there is no space to pick your position for a qualli lap cos the cars come around too soon.
I fully disagree.
The more the driver has to do in the cockpit the higher the skill required.
That's why traction control is banned even though it makes no difference to most spectators..
But is this any 'entertainment' to the watcher? It is a skill no doubt, but is it a driving skill? once established it is 'just' a matter of flicking a thumb to to a preset number every time, and I have little doubt that number was established, if not by, then defiantly with the help of, an engineer looking at data. Yes it is part of racing, but it is [art of what is making overtakes almost impossible. It is almost akin to movable aero in that it altered the characteristics of the car in different parts of the track.

Lots to be said for and against, but I go against as I like to see cars fight with different Pluses and minuses.
For me it is. I think managing things like brake bias, diff settings or power delivery all adds to the impressiveness of their driving. True, it's not always visible. But when it gets shown or when I spot these adjustments, I actually enjoy it as a spectator.

IMO it should be highlighted more instead.

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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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UlleGulle wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:44 pm
The ability to multi-task, however, is not one of those.
Umm, multi tasking is one of the primary requirements of wheel to wheel racing!

You have to keep an eye on your competitors while you are doing everything else. Watch a midfield drivers eyes at the start, they are all over the place, checking both mirrors, checking the cars to their sides, the cars to the front, all the while working the wheel , the settings and trying to see their known breaking points for the first turn.
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Shrieker
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Wouter wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:03 pm
A penalty? A racing ban? Everyone is happy that he is still alive, because that is a very great miracle and then you start talking about a race ban? You really don't have an ounce of feeling in your body, have you?!
Would you say the same had Kvyat been rammed into the barrier instead ?

If it makes you feel any more warm and fuzzy btw, I waited until he was clear of any risk from internal injuries etc.


The sad thing about Romain is, he never truly learned from past transgressions. If he continues racing, he'll end up doing the same again, it's just in his nature. For his sake and others', I just hope he calls it a day. The rumors about a possible move to Indycar is especially worrying.
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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LeClerc was very shook with the incident, It was telling reading all the drivers and team's facial expressions after this horrific incident.

I probably will run into a lot of max fanboi backlash here but i was absolutely disgusted by his cold and uninterested behaviour, especially his claim that if he was a teamleader and a driver did not want to drive after that incident, he'd boot him. absolutely a lack of respect and reasoning.

The incident shows how dangerous F1 driving still is, and many people underestimate this nowadays. Let's face it, if there was no Halo, grosjean would have lost his life right there right then. the 29th of November would have been a dark chapter in F1. And let's face it, the issue there was that there was still cause for concern.

After all, despite the fact miraculously Grosjean stepped out alive and well, which i'm still speechless about, the real concern is that his car plowed THROUGH the armco barrier. And it happened 'relatively' easy. Though it was a speedy crash, it happened during acceleration, after a corner, and you could argue it 'easily' could happen again.

The angle of that fence is a concern, and it could not be put to the back due to the 'gutter' behind it. There were no tires in front, behind, etc. to 'absorb' any impact and seemingly only was placed to 'block' the gutter. I was surprised that it was there and not taken into account beforehand.

It couldnt either simply be 'fixed' or 'adjusted', so let's face it, the risk of this repeating was present. The concrete blocks thankfully makes it impossible to 'plow through', so that did help somewhat.

So i really understand the drivers and teams concerns into racing this GP, it could be a bad omen just like that weekend in Imola. Then Stroll got flipped due to a retarded move by Kvyat.

It's an absolute miracle Grosjean was not killed in that accident.

The angle and speed of the impact itself was reason enough to be a severe accident, where wrists, legs and perhaps back vertibraes could be broken quite easily, at the very best.

Grosjean plowing literally through the fence still baffles me, and I could imagine that if the car did not snap in half, we could still have seen it turn out worse.

If it did not snap in half, it's likely that the shape of the back half would have kept grosjean's 'survival cell' INSIDE the fence, keeping grosjean caught in a blazing tornado of fire, which could have been going on even stronger and longer since the entire car's fuel tank was still connected in that scenario, not to mention the car probably would also still be combined to the batteries and as such also a electricity hazard. Grosjean would not have been able to escape being trapped inside and would, without a single doubt, have experienced severe burns, perhaps even deadly.

The poor guy would have burnt to death right there, right then, and it would have taken lots of prescious, likely life-and-death deciding time, to free him up from the wreckage and get him medical help.

if the survival cell was still 'inside' the fence, you won't be able to get that out of there swiftly, especially since you also need to concider the possiblity that you could actually make injuries worse by simply 'pulling' on the wreckage.

So had the back not have snapped off, we would very likely be looking at a (quite horrible) death.

Then it's also a miracle that with the survival cell plowing through the fence, that there was room for Grosjean to escape to begin with, and not completely upside down for example. had the car been upside down, and he would not find room to crawl out, or still even caught inside the fence, we would still be looking at a far worse outcome.
he still could have been ending up burning to death in that trap, or at the least become a very severe burn victim,
which in itself could still result in death due to infections, suffocation, or a variety of injuries sustained due to burning.

and this, all, with grosjean not having ended up with broken legs, wrist, neck, or back, preventing him to escape the car even in the same position the car was in whilst in an inferno.

The only reason Grosjean was able to come out of this crash relatively unharmed was because he was

1. Concious. 2. physically able to use his own available strenght to get out of the wreckage. 3. do it fast enough to not gain more severe burns. 4. get swift help from the medical car's team 5. the pack of marshalls and medical teams using fire extinguishers.

also, and this is something to concider too:
if the speed was higher, and he went through the fence with higher speed, he could have also ended up either crashing into that pit/gutter right behind that fence, which was RIGHT beside it. Hell, he could have even went the 'wrong' direction when escaping and could have fallen INTO that gutter.

i think there is a whole lot to be learned and still improved after this incident, and i hope that it will.
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Do you believe one can 'choose' how one reacts in such a situation? Reaction is immediate and innate.

Hell, some people can't choose how they react here on this forum!

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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Shrieker wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:47 am
Wouter wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:03 pm
A penalty? A racing ban? Everyone is happy that he is still alive, because that is a very great miracle and then you start talking about a race ban? You really don't have an ounce of feeling in your body, have you?!
Would you say the same had Kvyat been rammed into the barrier instead ?

If it makes you feel any more warm and fuzzy btw, I waited until he was clear of any risk from internal injuries etc.


The sad thing about Romain is, he never truly learned from past transgressions. If he continues racing, he'll end up doing the same again, it's just in his nature. For his sake and others', I just hope he calls it a day. The rumors about a possible move to Indycar is especially worrying.
not to mention this little incident.

his lack of awareness is on a different level, it's been confirmed time and time again. I'm glad he's ok, but the sooner he's out of f1, the better.

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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Juzh wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:19 pm
not to mention this little incident.

his lack of awareness is on a different level, it's been confirmed time and time again. I'm glad he's ok, but the sooner he's out of f1, the better.
Lol yeah I had forgotten this one completely. I think this %100000 deserved a race ban, and iirc he got away with a relatively minor penalty for the transgression. He was facing the wrong way for a good bit with half of the grid oncoming my god...
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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This gives me the chills every time I watch it. If you make it full screen, you can see him move at the start of the video thru the gap in the barriers. He stops for a brief moment after he gets out a bit; I think that was either because he held on to the halo to pull himself out and his hands burned, or it was the moment where he was trying to untangle his left foot, and eventually it did untangle by way of the boot coming off. He only starts moving again after the guy with the extinguisher pushed the flames away a bit. I wonder whether they found the boot or not, and in what shape.
Last edited by Shrieker on Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
-Atatürk