2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

[diffuser]

So ferrari are bringing an engine upgrade via aduo for next race and another in a few races time.
I'm assuming honda are taking longer cos they want to change the architecture for next year? Or is it a case or being further behind so have to take longer with engine stuff

Sky said yesterday "Formula 1's governing body, the FIA, are holding discussions with the teams regarding their engine performance findings" So I don't think that the results of ADUO are finalized yet.

I am really getting mad about this. Politics has put Honda in the crossfire and they are being delayed from developing its engine. The FIA needs to step up and put an end to these games.

Nobody is preventing Honda from Developing anything. There are no restriction on what a PU Manufacture does with it's CAP $$$$.

[GhostF1]

Sky said yesterday "Formula 1's governing body, the FIA, are holding discussions with the teams regarding their engine performance findings" So I don't think that the results of ADUO are finalized yet.

I am really getting mad about this. Politics has put Honda in the crossfire and they are being delayed from developing its engine. The FIA needs to step up and put an end to these games.

Nobody is preventing Honda from Developing anything. There are no restriction on what a PU Manufacture does with it's CAP $$$$.

Agree with this. And I'm sure they've been developing the engine all along, it just depends what they can bring to the track in steps based on the FIA's findings. It isn't really a matter of waiting to start developing. That is not the case, Honda have been doing so the whole time.

The difference between Honda and Ferrari for example, is Fez can afford to bring small updates where they can to bridge the gap. Honda are requiring much larger steps, which take time. This isn't a conversation solely about peak power either, that drastically over-simplifies how these things run. And I'd love to know how much the gearbox is actually affecting them. This is impossible to quantify with these power units, especially on the outside. Hell of a year to start making your own!

[zoroastar]

lance scored in the first 2 races of the season last year. alonso was racing in 5th when he crashed in australia. they had a sh$% car but they had a good engine.

Yes, you're absolutely right. You could choose to consistently score points as a 5th or 6th-place finishing team and enjoy it. I think you prefer AM to remain a mid-pack team, sticking to the familiar scenarios last years. However, suffering today and becoming champion in 2-3 years is much better than scoring points in the middle of the pack. That's the current AM vision, but you're still stuck in the middle of the pack. McLaren is currently scoring points with the Merc engine, but they also say they feel the shortcomings of not being a factory team. Do you think they're happy just because they're scoring points right now?

wtf are you talkin about dude? i simply made a factual statement because the dude i replied to made a statement that was completely false. you dont know anything about what i want. i was the one saying honda was a great idea when other people were saying how bad it was looking from their preseason statements about having no members from the redbull days left. now its turned into whether choosing a particular engine supplier set them back for an entire rules cycle or not. remains to be seen at the moment.

[zoroastar]

In Monaco the drivers refused to shift to first gear for better recover because of engine drive-ability, and when Stroll relented he immediately crashed.
So it's not like in Monaco the engine wasn't a factor in the poor results.

I don't think, no one here is trying to say that the engine has no effect at all. But we sometimes get involved in the futile task of trying to explain to those who are unwilling to understand that the engine isn't the only problem.

However, how much of a good engine feel can you get with a poorly functioning transmission? That's something to consider. If the transmission isn't working as expected, how can engine mapping solve the problem? Perhaps there are areas where those working on the chassis side are struggling because of the engine, but the same applies to the engine side as well. If the transmission and rear grip/df aren't helping you to achieve the rear braking you need to regenaration, wouldn't you experience this as a lack of maximum power from electric motor side? So maybe some of 70 hp power gap comes from low performance of the car.

dude, trust me, there isnt a soul in here that thinks that we have a good chassis. most have moved on to talking about other team related topics. a few people in here that are so hyper sensitive to hondas problems that they cant make a single comment without telling us once again that astons chassis sucks too. who TF cares? its just a stupid pissing contest. people need to stop over compensating for their beloved engine maker and thinking they are some kind of mythical company that can do no wrong. EVERYBODY knows that the chassis needs work. everybody also knows that if they had a decent reliable power unit and GEARBOX they would probably have been miles ahead of where they are now in that department. the sad posts by people that are butthurt that honda gets blamed for anything is wearing old. this is aston / honda team thread, not the honda sympathy forum

[hollus]

And everybody needs to stop taking things personal and to stop telling others what they should not say or not think.
Keep it civil, folks. Live with the different opinions.

[etusch]

dude, trust me, there isnt a soul in here that thinks that we have a good chassis. most have moved on to talking about other team related topics. a few people in here that are so hyper sensitive to hondas problems that they cant make a single comment without telling us once again that astons chassis sucks too. who TF cares? its just a stupid pissing contest. people need to stop over compensating for their beloved engine maker and thinking they are some kind of mythical company that can do no wrong. EVERYBODY knows that the chassis needs work. everybody also knows that if they had a decent reliable power unit and GEARBOX they would probably have been miles ahead of where they are now in that department. the sad posts by people that are butthurt that honda gets blamed for anything is wearing old. this is aston / honda team thread, not the honda sympathy forum

While this isn't a Honda sympathizer forum, I am someone who sympathizes with Honda. And the forum's format doesn't change that. I don't think this is a place to mercilessly praise European manufacturers like they do in motogp after years of japan wining batching japan manufacturers when European starts to win. But with so many Europeans, this statement could turn into an attack.
It's absurd that I even have to say this, but the same engine is in a race-winning car, and in a car competing around Aston.
If Newey had chosen the safest route, and Honda had chosen the safest route, Stroll choosen safest route, they might be doing a little better today. But is that the point? A comment from someone who doesn't understand this simply means they don't understand anything about objective of AM.

Maybe a child or an immature person always wants to be on the winning side. But I much prefer watching a team rise from the bottom, step by step. Unfortunately, it's not always possible to get informations with all the technical developments, especially in MotoGP. But this forum helps me with that.
Back when Honda and Red Bull were already winning, I didn't even feel the need to look at the races or the forum for comments. There was nothing left that interested me. Now I'm looking again.

Even if midfield minded people left, they did well. Some of forum members really share good news sources and comments.

[etusch]

If the transmission and rear grip/df aren't helping you to achieve the rear braking you need to regenaration, wouldn't you experience this as a lack of maximum power from electric motor side? So maybe some of 70 hp power gap comes from low performance of the car.

Wow. That's completely pulled out of the air... With no basis. Having poor grip in the corners doesn't effect regeneration. If the grip was so bad they needed longer brake distances it would help regeneration.

I can't believe I'm reading this... Longer braking can regenarate more if you're at the same recovery level every time you brake, and long braking times mean bad lap times.

[zoroastar]

dude, trust me, there isnt a soul in here that thinks that we have a good chassis. most have moved on to talking about other team related topics. a few people in here that are so hyper sensitive to hondas problems that they cant make a single comment without telling us once again that astons chassis sucks too. who TF cares? its just a stupid pissing contest. people need to stop over compensating for their beloved engine maker and thinking they are some kind of mythical company that can do no wrong. EVERYBODY knows that the chassis needs work. everybody also knows that if they had a decent reliable power unit and GEARBOX they would probably have been miles ahead of where they are now in that department. the sad posts by people that are butthurt that honda gets blamed for anything is wearing old. this is aston / honda team thread, not the honda sympathy forum

While this isn't a Honda sympathizer forum, I am someone who sympathizes with Honda. And the forum's format doesn't change that. I don't think this is a place to mercilessly praise European manufacturers like they do in motogp after years of japan wining batching japan manufacturers when European starts to win. But with so many Europeans, this statement could turn into an attack.
It's absurd that I even have to say this, but the same engine is in a race-winning car, and in a car competing around Aston.
If Newey had chosen the safest route, and Honda had chosen the safest route, Stroll choosen safest route, they might be doing a little better today. But is that the point? A comment from someone who doesn't understand this simply means they don't understand anything about objective of AM.

Maybe a child or an immature person always wants to be on the winning side. But I much prefer watching a team rise from the bottom, step by step. Unfortunately, it's not always possible to get informations with all the technical developments, especially in MotoGP. But this forum helps me with that.
Back when Honda and Red Bull were already winning, I didn't even feel the need to look at the races or the forum for comments. There was nothing left that interested me. Now I'm looking again.

Even if midfield minded people left, they did well. Some of forum members really share good news sources and comments.

more than a lot of people in here realize also sympathize for honda. but they shouldnt be expected to offer apologies to guys that feel like honda has somehow been mistreated for underperforming either. like ive said a couple of times, theres plenty of blame to go around everywhere. theres no europe or japanese pride coming from where im standing. or american for that matter. in my opinion, thats where all the problems begin. if you lke starting from the bottom in f1, thats your prerogative. seems kinda masochistic to me. but regardless, most of us that have been following aston primarily forthe last few years, or following alonso, have never been on "the winning side". its hard to understand how wanting to win is immature. maybe all sports are immature then. that is sorta the point. while i understand what you mean about seeing the team being built up gives a greater sense of accomplishment, from my standpoint, weve been at the bottom since the second half of 2023. 5th isnt much better than 11th in my view.

[BassVirolla]

dude, trust me, there isnt a soul in here that thinks that we have a good chassis. most have moved on to talking about other team related topics. a few people in here that are so hyper sensitive to hondas problems that they cant make a single comment without telling us once again that astons chassis sucks too. who TF cares? its just a stupid pissing contest. people need to stop over compensating for their beloved engine maker and thinking they are some kind of mythical company that can do no wrong. EVERYBODY knows that the chassis needs work. everybody also knows that if they had a decent reliable power unit and GEARBOX they would probably have been miles ahead of where they are now in that department. the sad posts by people that are butthurt that honda gets blamed for anything is wearing old. this is aston / honda team thread, not the honda sympathy forum

While this isn't a Honda sympathizer forum, I am someone who sympathizes with Honda. And the forum's format doesn't change that. I don't think this is a place to mercilessly praise European manufacturers like they do in motogp after years of japan wining batching japan manufacturers when European starts to win. But with so many Europeans, this statement could turn into an attack.
It's absurd that I even have to say this, but the same engine is in a race-winning car, and in a car competing around Aston.
If Newey had chosen the safest route, and Honda had chosen the safest route, Stroll choosen safest route, they might be doing a little better today. But is that the point? A comment from someone who doesn't understand this simply means they don't understand anything about objective of AM.

Maybe a child or an immature person always wants to be on the winning side. But I much prefer watching a team rise from the bottom, step by step. Unfortunately, it's not always possible to get informations with all the technical developments, especially in MotoGP. But this forum helps me with that.
Back when Honda and Red Bull were already winning, I didn't even feel the need to look at the races or the forum for comments. There was nothing left that interested me. Now I'm looking again.

Even if midfield minded people left, they did well. Some of forum members really share good news sources and comments.

more than a lot of people in here realize also sympathize for honda. but they shouldnt be expected to offer apologies to guys that feel like honda has somehow been mistreated for underperforming either. like ive said a couple of times, theres plenty of blame to go around everywhere. theres no europe or japanese pride coming from where im standing. or american for that matter. in my opinion, thats where all the problems begin. if you lke starting from the bottom in f1, thats your prerogative. seems kinda masochistic to me. but regardless, most of us that have been following aston primarily forthe last few years, or following alonso, have never been on "the winning side". its hard to understand how wanting to win is immature. maybe all sports are immature then. that is sorta the point. while i understand what you mean about seeing the team being built up gives a greater sense of accomplishment, from my standpoint, weve been at the bottom since the second half of 2023. 5th isnt much better than 11th in my view.

Even while AM is not doing fine by a long shot, seems at least naive to think that Honda is getting its fair share of blame just for not being an european manufacturer.

As long as I remember, Ferrari and Renault are european and had received good amount of stick for design and organizative failures.

[ispano6]

Meanwhile Ferrari and Shell are bringing an upgraded fuel and engine to Austria.

Yes, Shell is involved. The fuel supplier. People talk about weakest engine but face it folks, your ICE is limited by your fuel combustion energy. Yes, Honda and Aramco DO have work to do. Pinning it on Honda's incompetence, weakest engine, broken promises that were never made and all that shaming by the posters here lowered the quality of this forum.
Why? Because the whiners here only complain about results and don't care to peel back the layers to understand where the deficits actually are coming from.

I expect it to be hard and difficult, and the challenge is what makes it worth while to participate and follow.

[diffuser]

If the transmission and rear grip/df aren't helping you to achieve the rear braking you need to regenaration, wouldn't you experience this as a lack of maximum power from electric motor side? So maybe some of 70 hp power gap comes from low performance of the car.

Wow. That's completely pulled out of the air... With no basis. Having poor grip in the corners doesn't effect regeneration. If the grip was so bad they needed longer brake distances it would help regeneration.

I can't believe I'm reading this... Longer braking can regenarate more if you're at the same recovery level every time you brake, and long braking times mean bad lap times.

I have my suspicions, Not based in any facts, that the majority of the AMR26's gearbox problems are explained as "gearbox" problems but are really PU drivability issues... I think after Newey had the big finger point incident at the beginning of the year, AMR F1 are avoiding pointing at Honda's PU as a cause of problems.

The guy they brought over from Merc is basically the guy that designed the Merc gearbox cassette and internals the previous years. The drivers complained about having to tap the throttle to get the gears to sync..

If we look at what the dog ring does...When the driver pulls a paddle:

• The transmission control system briefly cuts engine torque (or manages torque electronically).

• A hydraulic actuator moves a dog ring.

• The dog ring disengages the current gear and engages the next one.

• Torque is restored.

So there is an interaction between the PU, the gearbox and the paddle shifters/CE.

correct me if I'm wrong about how the gearbox works. It's also possible they got something wrong but I would have expected more breaking than anything else ...

[diffuser]

If the transmission and rear grip/df aren't helping you to achieve the rear braking you need to regenaration, wouldn't you experience this as a lack of maximum power from electric motor side? So maybe some of 70 hp power gap comes from low performance of the car.

Wow. That's completely pulled out of the air... With no basis. Having poor grip in the corners doesn't effect regeneration. If the grip was so bad they needed longer brake distances it would help regeneration.

I can't believe I'm reading this... Longer braking can regenarate more if you're at the same recovery level every time you brake, and long braking times mean bad lap times.

It isn't really that complicated. When you hit the brakes, the first thing that provides braking force at the rear is the ICE/MGU-K regenerative braking system. If you have a shorter distance to slow down and need to press the brake pedal harder because you require more deceleration than the regenerative system can provide, the rear brake pads must also engage. Whenever the brake pads are used, that energy is effectively wasted as heat. If you had a longer distance to brake, the rear pads wouldn't need to engage, and you would generate more energy to recharge the battery.

[Tommy Cookers]

.... your ICE is limited by your fuel combustion energy.....

well .....

the fuel rules now don't fix fuel mass per race - so fuel with high mass-specific energy is now not rewarded
fuel energy per race now is fixed

yes the ICE's job still is to turn as much as possible of the fuel energy into work

[urtsee]

the fuel rules now don't fix fuel mass per race - so fuel with high mass-specific energy is now not rewarded
fuel energy per race now is fixed

Do you know how that is measured?

By potential energy?

Energy used?

Some calculation?

Straight question

[diffuser]

the fuel rules now don't fix fuel mass per race - so fuel with high mass-specific energy is now not rewarded
fuel energy per race now is fixed

Do you know how that is measured?

By potential energy?

Energy used?

Some calculation?

Straight question

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -12-06.pdf
When assessing compliance with the above two articles, the fuel mass flow rates measured
by the fuel flow meters will be converted in the SECU in fuel energy flow rates using the
energy density and the LHV of the fuel as measured by the FIA. The procedure which will be
used to determine these values may be found in the Appendix to the Technical and Sporting
Regulations.


The Appendix they're referring to is not a public document.