2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Restomaniac wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:34 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:05 pm
Restomaniac wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:25 pm

This is a very good point. Without an amazing amount of bad luck he would have no doubt won in 2016 as well and without a gearbox glitch at the start of the last race in 2007 he could very easily of won Raikkonen's title instead too.
If Vettel and co. would not have collided in Singapore and if those reliability gremlins didn't come over in Malaysia or Japan who knows what would have happened?

I think that's why we go racing. Everything looks in a certain manner on paper, but we go to the track to see if it really is that way. I think that's what brings out the excitement in us fans. It is these 'iffy' moments that make the good one's really sweet.

I think from a personal point of view, I would have loved to see Sebastian take the WDC this year. But, Lewis winning it doesn't make me bitter/sour. I think he deserves it. He's been in PlayStation mode after the summer break. I just find the Mercedes PR tirade absolutely unbearable. The funny thing is, I'm not even a Hamilton supporter. Hell, if you cast aside the massive respect I have for his abilities I might even dislike him. I think I was actually more disappointed last year when Hamilton didn't win and Rosberg did.
I agree. He could have 6 but he could also have 2.

As for the Mercedes PR they are not in their own Look at Renault when the heat started over their new FIA employee. They quickly saw it was becoming a PR disaster and quickly extended the supposed gardening leave (I don't buy there will be no info shared behind closed doors). Big companies play the game of maximising PR.
Toto Wolff feels every weekend since 2014 that Ferrari/RBR are close. He also has a lot of pretence. Wait for the challenging times.. He will crack and how.

Niki Lauda finds everything 'unbelievable.'

I have also seen a desperate urge in the Mercedes ranks to make 2014-17 look like they've been the underdogs and somehow managed to win. I mean, it's one thing to be diplomatic and underplay your chances and quite another to treat the fans like fools.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

Restomaniac
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:50 pm
Restomaniac wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:34 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:05 pm


If Vettel and co. would not have collided in Singapore and if those reliability gremlins didn't come over in Malaysia or Japan who knows what would have happened?

I think that's why we go racing. Everything looks in a certain manner on paper, but we go to the track to see if it really is that way. I think that's what brings out the excitement in us fans. It is these 'iffy' moments that make the good one's really sweet.

I think from a personal point of view, I would have loved to see Sebastian take the WDC this year. But, Lewis winning it doesn't make me bitter/sour. I think he deserves it. He's been in PlayStation mode after the summer break. I just find the Mercedes PR tirade absolutely unbearable. The funny thing is, I'm not even a Hamilton supporter. Hell, if you cast aside the massive respect I have for his abilities I might even dislike him. I think I was actually more disappointed last year when Hamilton didn't win and Rosberg did.
I agree. He could have 6 but he could also have 2.

As for the Mercedes PR they are not in their own Look at Renault when the heat started over their new FIA employee. They quickly saw it was becoming a PR disaster and quickly extended the supposed gardening leave (I don't buy there will be no info shared behind closed doors). Big companies play the game of maximising PR.
Toto Wolff feels every weekend since 2014 that Ferrari/RBR are close. He also has a lot of pretence. Wait for the challenging times.. He will crack and how.

Niki Lauda finds everything 'unbelievable.'

I have also seen a desperate urge in the Mercedes ranks to make 2014-17 look like they've been the underdogs and somehow managed to win. I mean, it's one thing to be diplomatic and underplay your chances and quite another to treat the fans like fools.
That isn't PR it's mind games.

However let us be honest here you only have to look at the pre testing thread on here. The narrative was set before the season even started. Hell SKY's consistent efforts to climb up Ferrari's anus has been a season long attempt. Can you really blame Mercedes for being willing to use it? Be honest wouldn't you let the pressure stay in your opponents if you could?

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De Jokke
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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I hope Mercedes can get Bottas to the Rosberg level more or less, as we need him for the coming year(s), if merc still can provide a title challenger car. RBR and Ferrari will be much closer or in front and won't keep breaking down. This year, nice bag of points for Bottas, although it could have been much more, but still: two crucial wins at that point of the championship (Russia, Austria). Come on Merc, sort out your 2nd driver, as we'll need him!
Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!

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TAG
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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माकडाच्या हाती कोलीत

gdogg371
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Hopefully this technically vague speculating is acceptable in the team thread, but if this year's chassis really has been a diva because of a late banning of a suspension system that was key to the design philosophy, next year with a less compromised chassis could end up being a bit like 2003 going into 2004 with Ferrari, where everyone thought they might finally be toppled after a relatively close 2003, only for them to have their most dominant season the year after.

Mercedes still seem to be able to find something more to keep people at arms length on the engine front and Ferrari have lost their technical director ironically enough to Mercedes. I did wonder once James moved teams whether the Ferrari challenge would slowly start to evaporate as the season went on...

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Phil
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:50 pm
Toto Wolff feels every weekend since 2014 that Ferrari/RBR are close. He also has a lot of pretence. Wait for the challenging times.. He will crack and how.

Niki Lauda finds everything 'unbelievable.'

I have also seen a desperate urge in the Mercedes ranks to make 2014-17 look like they've been the underdogs and somehow managed to win. I mean, it's one thing to be diplomatic and underplay your chances and quite another to treat the fans like fools.
Personally, I've really grown to like the Mercedes F1 Team. I like Toto, I like Niki and I very much appreciate how the team is run all the way down to their codex of trying to adhere to the concept of equality between team-mates. I've not always felt this way - perhaps down in 2014 when I had doubts over how the team was (and the drivers were) managed (perhaps being a bit overly emotional given the war between Rosberg and Hamilton that ignited in Monaco '14), but I have since come to appreciate how they have dealt with and managed to come through as strong as they have.

Niki is a quite the character. Hate him or like him, one thing I've come to appreciate about him is that he is always very direct and will tell you what he thinks, no bullshit. This has often led to situations where he has come across as a clown, a person you just don't take serious, but in its own way, it makes sense. As Niki is also a co-moderator on the RTL (German) broadcast, there have been countless of awkward situations where Niki said something that just doesn't fit in well on a live public broadcast. I think watching the movie 'Rush' and re-living his horrific accident has made me appreciate him more as a person, his function within the Mercedes team and as a racer.

Even if Lewis leaves the silver arrows team one day, I could still see myself staying a strong supporter of the team.

I also think that there have been various stages of the 2015 and 2016 championship where Mercedes genuinely felt things were close to the competition (especially Ferrari). Sure, on most tracks, they were the dominant force, but I very clearly remember parts of the 2016 season when there was this strong belief that Ferrari were contenders. F1 is not exact science and the fun thing about it is that no track is like another. Sometimes, the gap is smaller, sometimes it's bigger. And in regards to the end of this season, I do feel it will be rather close in some of the up coming races where we just can't say who will actually be strongest. I still think there's a high probability that in at least one of the upcoming races, Mercedes might only be 3rd strongest behind RedBull and Ferrari. We will see.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Wynters
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:47 pm
I have been quoted a fair amount, so I can't respond to every detail to the hilt but I'll give a jist of my feelings-

...
A quality post on difficult subjects and it's hard to find much I disagree with.

Very much agree about Hamilton's 'casual' mode. Also agree about Vettel's greater focus. Vettel seems to care about all the little records (e.g. regularly used to push his car to get fastest lap). I used to think that was foolish (why risk the engine) but then I realised that he was setting himself lots of goals to constantly push his performance. It would've been easy to slip into cruise-control during the period of RBR dominance but, by having all these, relatively minor, targets it helped keep him focussed and pushing.

I think you are pretty spot on about Rosberg too. However, I'm not sure I would classify Rosberg as 'always a gentleman'. Monaco Quali springs to mind and his tendency to push people off the track (even on a straight) is something that I think isn't good for the sport and has potentially contributed to the more 'barge my way through' and less 'finesse' approach to overtaking we see now from many of the younger drivers. However, part of me actually respected the killer instinct Monaco showed. I would agree with 'almost always' though ;)

If Hamilton had been the one who retired last year, I wonder how a Rosberg/Bottas pairing would have fared this year?

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SiLo
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Wynters wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:42 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:47 pm
I have been quoted a fair amount, so I can't respond to every detail to the hilt but I'll give a jist of my feelings-

...
[/quote
If Hamilton had been the one who retired last year, I wonder how a Rosberg/Bottas pairing would have fared this year?
I think Rosberg would have done well, and with the Ferrari meltdown recently may have been leading the championship. But I feel Hamiltons qualifying has been on another level this year and that has likely won him a few more points than maybe Rosberg would have.

Interesting postulation though.
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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It was rather close between Rosberg and Lewis, also in Qually, so i think it would have been interesting.

Nevertheless, Nico stated in his Sky pundit weekend that fighting Lewis was really, really, but really really hard. Physically and Mentally. He was very able to upset Lewis and unbalance him, but fighting Lewis obviously took a huge toll on him, hence his decision that he didn't want to go for another year of this mental war and weight, with the off chance of getting another title but being another complicated year, which also have their effects on his family life.

On one side i think it was lame stepping out like that, on the other hand one can only respect him for it as he achieved his goal in F1, and then, what else is there? Family is very important and he is now there for his wife and kids, and still involved in motorsports and able to 'help' others, still be an ambassador for Mercedes and thus grab a lot of money still.

I think Rosberg would have beaten Bottas just as Hamilton has this year, no difference. I am curious how a Vettel vs Rosberg battle would have panned out.
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Yeah, i feel ater seeing a few glimpses of what Nico was capable of , Monaco 14 springs to mind, then i cant imagine what would have happened in Baku if it were Nico leading and Seb playing bumper cars. Could have been fun
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ringo
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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With this years competition i dont think it would have been close between Ham and Ros.
The dominance of 2016 car ensured things stayed within 7 points all the time. Even when Hamilton is 20 seconds up the road on the same strategy. So i disagree it would be close if redbull and ferrari are injected. Rosberg would be in a similar position ot Bottas.
Most of the times when both cars had no issues, Lewis normally outruns Nico. If lewis got a bad start he would chase and overtake Nico. It was rare that Nico ever chased lewis at all. Very rare.
So i wouldn't say Nico would be close on points to lewis this year. He would be in a bette position than Bottas, but he would have to focus on everyone else, and would not have the time or energy to only focus on what is happening in lewis side of the garage, then copy everything and get driver coaching over the radio. He wouldnt have time for all this if he were racing in 2017.

And i am still waiting on Hamilton's tell all book about his time with mercedes... Should be a best seller.
For Sure!!

makecry
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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ringo wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:11 am
With this years competition i dont think it would have been close between Ham and Ros.
The dominance of 2016 car ensured things stayed within 7 points all the time. Even when Hamilton is 20 seconds up the road on the same strategy. So i disagree it would be close if redbull and ferrari are injected. Rosberg would be in a similar position ot Bottas.
Most of the times when both cars had no issues, Lewis normally outruns Nico. If lewis got a bad start he would chase and overtake Nico. It was rare that Nico ever chased lewis at all. Very rare.
So i wouldn't say Nico would be close on points to lewis this year. He would be in a bette position than Bottas, but he would have to focus on everyone else, and would not have the time or energy to only focus on what is happening in lewis side of the garage, then copy everything and get driver coaching over the radio. He wouldnt have time for all this if he were racing in 2017.

And i am still waiting on Hamilton's tell all book about his time with mercedes... Should be a best seller.
I disagree. Bottas' gap to Lewis is >4 times the gap Nico had to Lewis. Nico was 0.07% off Lewis over his time together. Bottas has been over 0.3% off. Nico would qualify ahead and would generally be ahead.

As you said he would be focusing on others unlike before but it would most likely be mercedes 1-2 more often than not.

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ringo
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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I don't understand what that percentage off means. You need to elaborate on that.


But you cannot average these things. It's case by case. If your teammate out qualifies you by 3 to 6 tenths very often and then will drive away from you finishing 20 seconds ahead if all get away cleanly. It's not close.
Rosberg is very good, but he is not leagues ahead of Bottas. Lauda said so himself, and he is very straight up.
What i remember of Lewis and Nico, was that Lewis almost certainly had the upper hand on race pace; more so than his qualifying against Nico. It got so bad the team studied why he saved more fuel, how he used the tyres, and fed that info to Nico. If it was so close Nico wouldn't need help, and he wouldnt have sold his soul in 2016, and still neede bad luck for lewis to lose to him by 5 points.
But to stay on topic, you cannot summarize their partnerships in one % value. Nico is was more likely to come close in qualy (and he still got smashed now and then by half a second), but he was never formidable in the races. And that's what we are seeing here as well with Bottas. Hamilton's race pace is on another level.
For Sure!!

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Huge congrats to all Lewis fans! Well deserved title!
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Just couldn't stop reading this over and over again and then posting here. =D> Sad, I couldn't make this my signature due to the length of the characters. :(

https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature/77 ... lewis-head
F1Racing: Just to elaborate on the subject of proving yourself, how tough was it to move into Mercedes, which was basically Michael Schumacher's team when he made his comeback?

Nico Rosberg: Yeah, it made for some difficult moments of course, because he comes in and it's like God walking through the door. Really. Every time he walked in, all the engineers - metaphorically speaking - stopped what they were doing and admired him.

Image