2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Scorpaguy
Scorpaguy
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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I recall Kub putting it into the wall once (pit wall maybe...minimal damage). Rus...twice I think. However, I could be wrong on those figures...but the 2 drivers have been quite adroit at bringing their cars home.

What is more disconcerting to me, especially at the beginning of the season, was the frequency that bits and pieces of the car would literally break and then fly off when driven at speed...obvious that the car was in no way ready for either Barcelona or the 2019 season. For Williams to come out now and openly state they have to stop racing in the middle of a race to conserve parts is even more troubling. I would assume that if a new team that stated they had enough parts for the first 75% of the season and that the balance was a guess...said team would not be approved for the season.

As a lifelong Williams fan, I still am left wondering if this is a CW of a PL blame issue (likely a bit of both). I hope they can turn it around, but recent financials seem to indicate a more bleak picture.

Thru the end of the year...maybe?
Thru the 2020 season...one can only hope.

netoperek
netoperek
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:39 pm

They didn't want KUB'S brakes to fail and put him, his car and it's parts to break, what is so hard to understand?

KUB has absolutely crashed more than RUS, this is not in question and has nothing to do with DNF. Crashes happen in practice, but they still destroy parts.
Unbelievable, how You got so much wrong. Kubica has been given scrap from get go - for first 5 or 6 races he was driving a broken chassis - which btw got broken by Rus on the preseason testing. He had a minor incidents, true, some of them his mistakes some actually Williams fault, like when his mirrors flew away, or bits of front wing fell off on its own and punctured the tire...
Fact is, Williams sadly only had resources for one car and they put a bet on Russel, leaving Robert with what was left. Claire herself admited recently just that. Going by this routine, they called Robert in to salvage what was usable from his car and put it into George's car and Robert will be given what they'll manage to come by with for next race weekend. It really is pretty obvious. They could pretend it was a safety concern, but didn't even bother to lie, as they don't give a s..t anymore if they convince more people like You with their "equal treatment" farce.
One more thing, If You look up closely at George's onboard, You'll notice there was no evident hardware failure (bigger than this years Williams car, of course). Steering looks like it's working, brakes are working (You could make such assumption, with the amount of smoke from locked front left tire) He simply made a mistake on a cold tire. Happened to every driver at some point, I guess. Why bother to lie on this one?
A video footage, for Your convienience:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1178335721171632129

marmer
marmer
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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netoperek wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:32 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:39 pm

They didn't want KUB'S brakes to fail and put him, his car and it's parts to break, what is so hard to understand?

KUB has absolutely crashed more than RUS, this is not in question and has nothing to do with DNF. Crashes happen in practice, but they still destroy parts.
Unbelievable, how You got so much wrong. Kubica has been given scrap from get go - for first 5 or 6 races he was driving a broken chassis - which btw got broken by Rus on the preseason testing. He had a minor incidents, true, some of them his mistakes some actually Williams fault, like when his mirrors flew away, or bits of front wing fell off on its own and punctured the tire...
Fact is, Williams sadly only had resources for one car and they put a bet on Russel, leaving Robert with what was left. Claire herself admited recently just that. Going by this routine, they called Robert in to salvage what was usable from his car and put it into George's car and Robert will be given what they'll manage to come by with for next race weekend. It really is pretty obvious. They could pretend it was a safety concern, but didn't even bother to lie, as they don't give a s..t anymore if they convince more people like You with their "equal treatment" farce.
One more thing, If You look up closely at George's onboard, You'll notice there was no evident hardware failure (bigger than this years Williams car, of course). Steering looks like it's working, brakes are working (You could make such assumption, with the amount of smoke from locked front left tire) He simply made a mistake on a cold tire. Happened to every driver at some point, I guess. Why bother to lie on this one?
A video footage, for Your convienience:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1178335721171632129
to me it seems like the brake locks in place (left side) or the right side failed to do anything which made him keep his foot on the brake to try and slow it down. either way or both he wasn't going to make a left turn with no left grip and potentally only one brake working. if it was just dirver error he would have let off the pedal and regained grip after missing the corner. unless he had a bit of a brain fart but radio seems to suggest something went wrong unless he is very good at making excuses

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Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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marmer wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:08 pm
netoperek wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:32 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:39 pm

They didn't want KUB'S brakes to fail and put him, his car and it's parts to break, what is so hard to understand?

KUB has absolutely crashed more than RUS, this is not in question and has nothing to do with DNF. Crashes happen in practice, but they still destroy parts.
Unbelievable, how You got so much wrong. Kubica has been given scrap from get go - for first 5 or 6 races he was driving a broken chassis - which btw got broken by Rus on the preseason testing. He had a minor incidents, true, some of them his mistakes some actually Williams fault, like when his mirrors flew away, or bits of front wing fell off on its own and punctured the tire...
Fact is, Williams sadly only had resources for one car and they put a bet on Russel, leaving Robert with what was left. Claire herself admited recently just that. Going by this routine, they called Robert in to salvage what was usable from his car and put it into George's car and Robert will be given what they'll manage to come by with for next race weekend. It really is pretty obvious. They could pretend it was a safety concern, but didn't even bother to lie, as they don't give a s..t anymore if they convince more people like You with their "equal treatment" farce.
One more thing, If You look up closely at George's onboard, You'll notice there was no evident hardware failure (bigger than this years Williams car, of course). Steering looks like it's working, brakes are working (You could make such assumption, with the amount of smoke from locked front left tire) He simply made a mistake on a cold tire. Happened to every driver at some point, I guess. Why bother to lie on this one?
A video footage, for Your convienience:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1178335721171632129
to me it seems like the brake locks in place (left side) or the right side failed to do anything which made him keep his foot on the brake to try and slow it down. either way or both he wasn't going to make a left turn with no left grip and potentally only one brake working. if it was just dirver error he would have let off the pedal and regained grip after missing the corner. unless he had a bit of a brain fart but radio seems to suggest something went wrong unless he is very good at making excuses
The highlights program, broadcast about 6 hrs after the race said his disk disintegrated. I have no knowledge, just repeating what was said on TV
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

netoperek
netoperek
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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marmer wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:08 pm
netoperek wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:32 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:39 pm

They didn't want KUB'S brakes to fail and put him, his car and it's parts to break, what is so hard to understand?

KUB has absolutely crashed more than RUS, this is not in question and has nothing to do with DNF. Crashes happen in practice, but they still destroy parts.
Unbelievable, how You got so much wrong. Kubica has been given scrap from get go - for first 5 or 6 races he was driving a broken chassis - which btw got broken by Rus on the preseason testing. He had a minor incidents, true, some of them his mistakes some actually Williams fault, like when his mirrors flew away, or bits of front wing fell off on its own and punctured the tire...
Fact is, Williams sadly only had resources for one car and they put a bet on Russel, leaving Robert with what was left. Claire herself admited recently just that. Going by this routine, they called Robert in to salvage what was usable from his car and put it into George's car and Robert will be given what they'll manage to come by with for next race weekend. It really is pretty obvious. They could pretend it was a safety concern, but didn't even bother to lie, as they don't give a s..t anymore if they convince more people like You with their "equal treatment" farce.
One more thing, If You look up closely at George's onboard, You'll notice there was no evident hardware failure (bigger than this years Williams car, of course). Steering looks like it's working, brakes are working (You could make such assumption, with the amount of smoke from locked front left tire) He simply made a mistake on a cold tire. Happened to every driver at some point, I guess. Why bother to lie on this one?
A video footage, for Your convienience:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1178335721171632129
to me it seems like the brake locks in place (left side) or the right side failed to do anything which made him keep his foot on the brake to try and slow it down. either way or both he wasn't going to make a left turn with no left grip and potentally only one brake working. if it was just dirver error he would have let off the pedal and regained grip after missing the corner. unless he had a bit of a brain fart but radio seems to suggest something went wrong unless he is very good at making excuses
Footage from different angle might support Your version, that he had uneven break balance or left side locked in place. Notice though, that George has been switching switches and pressing buttons right at the break zone, maybe the breaks got crazy being tuned while used or George put them terribly off balance by mistake? Unfortunately I couldn't find a video from behind or with telemetry, to see what was the input on break pedal.
Edit: @Big Tea which one? left or right?

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Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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netoperek wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:35 pm
marmer wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:08 pm
netoperek wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:32 pm


Unbelievable, how You got so much wrong. Kubica has been given scrap from get go - for first 5 or 6 races he was driving a broken chassis - which btw got broken by Rus on the preseason testing. He had a minor incidents, true, some of them his mistakes some actually Williams fault, like when his mirrors flew away, or bits of front wing fell off on its own and punctured the tire...
Fact is, Williams sadly only had resources for one car and they put a bet on Russel, leaving Robert with what was left. Claire herself admited recently just that. Going by this routine, they called Robert in to salvage what was usable from his car and put it into George's car and Robert will be given what they'll manage to come by with for next race weekend. It really is pretty obvious. They could pretend it was a safety concern, but didn't even bother to lie, as they don't give a s..t anymore if they convince more people like You with their "equal treatment" farce.
One more thing, If You look up closely at George's onboard, You'll notice there was no evident hardware failure (bigger than this years Williams car, of course). Steering looks like it's working, brakes are working (You could make such assumption, with the amount of smoke from locked front left tire) He simply made a mistake on a cold tire. Happened to every driver at some point, I guess. Why bother to lie on this one?
A video footage, for Your convienience:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1178335721171632129
to me it seems like the brake locks in place (left side) or the right side failed to do anything which made him keep his foot on the brake to try and slow it down. either way or both he wasn't going to make a left turn with no left grip and potentally only one brake working. if it was just dirver error he would have let off the pedal and regained grip after missing the corner. unless he had a bit of a brain fart but radio seems to suggest something went wrong unless he is very good at making excuses
Footage from different angle might support Your version, that he had uneven break balance or left side locked in place. Notice though, that George has been switching switches and pressing buttons right at the break zone, maybe the breaks got crazy being tuned while used or George put them terribly off balance by mistake? Unfortunately I couldn't find a video from behind or with telemetry, to see what was the input on break pedal.
Edit: @Big Tea which one? left or right?
As I said, I am only repeating what I hear, and it was literally 'his brake disk has disintegrated' Thinking on it, it may have been McNish (or may have not been sorry)
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:39 pm

They didn't want KUB'S brakes to fail and put him, his car and it's parts to break, what is so hard to understand?
indeed, what's so hard to understand the team's OWN WORDS that they retired his car to save parts #-o
what's so hard to understand on the mountain of evidence presented to you in several posts :roll:
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:09 am
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:39 pm

They didn't want KUB'S brakes to fail and put him, his car and it's parts to break, what is so hard to understand?
indeed, what's so hard to understand the team's OWN WORDS that they retired his car to save parts #-o
what's so hard to understand on the mountain of evidence presented to you in several posts :roll:
Save parts from a possible crash due to malfunctioning brakes, it's not hard at all, it makes perfect sense. Both cars are the same, if one malfunctions with a brake failure that causes a crash, then the chances of the other one doing the same are higher than they are willing to risk. The team did not want to risk having both cars in the wall due to the same malfunction.

What is so hard for you to understand?
Last edited by ENGINE TUNER on Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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That video explicitly shows right front brake failure. The left front is locked up while the right front rotates freely.

marmer
marmer
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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for me the bigger issue should be that for some reason russel is concered with the speed of gasley like why george you don't have a chance mate

##addition

wonder if there is any clasuse in russels contract via Merc that he must at least enter every race for the team otherwise they get less good of a discount on the engines. sort of a way to insure their young driver actually gets race time. maybe williams hand is being played for them Russels contract could easily say something like he must have equal or better parts than his teamate. equalling only enough parts for one car means russell gets them by default.


but williams could have easily avoided this storm by just saying we pulled robert over concerns after what happend to george. no one would have botherd

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Tattoo-
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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netoperek wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:32 pm
One more thing, If You look up closely at George's onboard, You'll notice there was no evident hardware failure (bigger than this years Williams car, of course). Steering looks like it's working, brakes are working (You could make such assumption, with the amount of smoke from locked front left tire) He simply made a mistake on a cold tire. Happened to every driver at some point, I guess. Why bother to lie on this one?
I know you are fan of conspiracy theories, but before you write your assumptions you should also check some facts! :wink:

George didn't make any mistake and his right disc (or even suspension) failed...from this HD video (from 23:15 onwards) you can clearly see sparks flying from Russell's right wheel! After that he just slammed on the brakes and that's why his left tire locked...



From this perspective (disc or suspension failure) it was also the right decision from the team to stop Kubica...I agree that Williams should use different wording (safety reason) for Kubica's stop, but it is what it is. :roll:
"There are only three sports: bull fighting, car racing and mountain climbing. The rest are mere games!" - Ernest Hemingway

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:31 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:09 am
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:39 pm

They didn't want KUB'S brakes to fail and put him, his car and it's parts to break, what is so hard to understand?
indeed, what's so hard to understand the team's OWN WORDS that they retired his car to save parts #-o
what's so hard to understand on the mountain of evidence presented to you in several posts :roll:
Save parts from a possible crash due to malfunctioning brakes, it's not hard at all, it makes perfect sense. Both cars are the same, if one malfunctions with a brake failure that causes a crash, then the chances of the other one doing the same are higher than they are willing to risk. The team did not want to risk having both cars in the wall due to the same malfunction.

What is so hard for you to understand?
Good lord you're so extremely stubborn.

https://f1i.com/news/356812-kubica-unha ... sochi.html
We opted to retire Robert in order to conserve parts ahead of the intense flyaway races which end the season," revealed Willliams senior race engineer Dave Robson
https://formulaspy.com/f1/williams-reti ... arts-64907

A statement from the team later said that they were investigating the cause of Russell’s retirement from the race, while Kubica was retired out of a desire to conserve parts ‘as we were not in contention for a points finish’.
nothing to do with supposed brake failure, which YOU claim you know, but the team itselfs claims OTHERWISE.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/29/wil ... rve-parts/
“An issue shortly after the restart caused George to lock a front wheel, damaging the car further
https://www.planetf1.com/f1-races/russi ... etirement/
The Williams driver was enjoying a solid race when he crashed under the Virtual Safety Car with a mechanical fault, bringing out a full Safety Car and ending his race.

To be honest we don’t really know what the issue was,” Russell said to reporters in the paddock.

“I just went into the corner and the whole car just bottomed out, so I couldn’t turn and just went straight on into the wall.

“We don’t know if something went under the car or if it was the front wing or if something broke, but yeah we’ll look into it.”
if you actually look into this video

https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2019/ ... y_Car.html

you will see there's much more than a lockup. you can see sparks flying from the front and indeed the car bottoming out. a car bottoming out will certainly cause a lock up, that does NOT mean it's a brake failure, even though it looked a bit like that at first.

you can stand by your faultive point as much as you want, have fun in being wrong. the team themselves mentioned the issue and have never mentioned it as brake failure. if it was that, they would have said that. they didn't.
if they would have retired robert's car because of a lingering brake failure, they would have mentioned that. THEY DIDNT.
what they did mention has been repeated a thousand times by now to you and in this very post. that they conserve parts because they're cheap and have huge financial problems and are shafting Kubica and handing his parts to George, as has been done the entire year, really.

again, what's so hard to understand the literal statements of the team and drivers?
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

bill shoe
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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So Williams retires Kubica from Russian GP, to essentially save money. There was no real safety issue, and given Kubica's 100% finish record there was no unusual or unreasonable risk of him having a major accident that writes off lots of parts.

Now his sponsor is asking: If we bought Kubica a seat fair and square and we've paid our bills, then can Williams just choose to withdraw him in the middle of a race to save their money? Are Williams then fulfilling the contract? Seems fair question.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/spon ... t/4551931/

Keeping an F1 team running through bad times is an ugly process. Remember Kaltenborn at Sauber and her 3 contracted race drivers?-- Bluntly unfair and unethical in the short term, but realistically kept Sauber going in the long term.

gshevlin
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Williams are in danger of digging themselves into a hole with potential sponsors. Sponsors do not expect a team to retire a healthy car from a race.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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gshevlin wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:49 pm
Williams are in danger of digging themselves into a hole with potential sponsors. Sponsors do not expect a team to retire a healthy car from a race.
Cruel as it sounds, the car probably had more TV coverage than it would had it plodded on to the end.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions