[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[ME4ME]

The brake ducts on a modern F1 car can be worth up to 1 second per lap (minimum).

You didnt control read that did you

[etusch]

Chassis (Red Bull)- A few seasons ago, when RB was having their disfunctional relationship with Renault, Helmut Marko famously sniffed that RB could win a Championship with 40 hp less than the competition, but not with 80 hp less than the competition. The underlying assumption was that RB had the best chassis in Formula 1. Don't know if it was true then, but it sure ain't true now. Red Bull has a chassis gap to Merc that is costing it world championships. When they go to chassis-sensitive circuits (powertrain un-sensitive circuits) like Hungary or Monaco, Merc usually still has the measure of them. RB has fallen in a rut of starting every...single...season with some fundamental chassis/aero problem that they need to solve. They have become experts at winning the "last 6 races of the year" championship, but they have never put a serious full-year challenge to Merc since the beginning of the current turbo era. Red Bull is underperforming on chassis, and that's what's losing them Championships. I have the impression that this hasn't really sunk in at RB, so I don't figure they will change.

I don't know which season it was, I think it was the season Renault applied TJI system to their engine in the midst of that season, redbull was most point collected team at second part of the season. Renault performance was increased dramatically by TJI. It is, off course, unacceptable that saying redbull had best chassis every year or every part of every year. But I believe that they had best chassis at that season when we think that still Renault has power deficit.
And there is a year that they could not do a proper test because of Renault issues but if I don't remember wrong they were not bad when they haven't issues with the engine.
But yes Redbull can not start seasons good enough while Mercedes completely ready even from very beginning of first minutes of winter tests. Redbull need to have track data to mature their car and it takes time. It is not matter finishing job in time as Marko generally stated. They just needs track data.

[zibby43]

The brake ducts on a modern F1 car can be worth up to 1 second per lap (minimum).

You didnt control read that did you

[Wynters]

Mercedes issue was with the rear tires

Iirc, Bottas was warned about his fronts early in both his first two stints.

[godlameroso]

Mercedes issue was with the rear tires

Iirc, Bottas was warned about his fronts early in both his first two stints.

He must not have had his DAS fitted!

[Wynters]

Looking at the three lead cars there are a few interesting things that come out. Not much that wasn't apparent though so this will be more of a commentary than a strict analysis.

Verstappen did well off the start, holding the gap to the next Mercedes better than pretty much all season (1.451 here, 1.549 last weekend, 2.879 in Styria and 2.047 in Austria). For the first four laps, the Mercedes are pushing and racing 4ach other. They add half a second to their lead over Verstappen each lap, business as usual, basically.

But, tail end of lap 4, Hamilton begins to ease off and this is where it becomes apparent that Mercedes have got a fight on their hands (reminder, they are on the Medium whilst Verstappen is on the Hard). For the next seven laps, Verstappen takes time out of both Mercedes, even Bottas in clear air. Over those seven laps, he takes an average of 0.236 seconds out of Bottas (and slightly more out of Hamilton). It's not clear whether Bottas is holding Hamilton up (the gap hovers at just over a second but that might just be both Mercedes being tyre limited at this point).

It's in the middle of this seven lap 'reel in' that Mercedes start, not just losing time to Verstappen, but going slower than the lap before. This, of course, impacts Verstappen (Hamilton slowing, slows Verstappen in turn). Mercedes pit Bottas on 13 (he's a second a lap slower than he was on lap 4).

Hamilton pits the next lap, staying out losing him about 3/10ths on Bottas, and this frees Verstappen who proves that his slow pace was due to being held up by immediately slipping from mid-32s to high 31s. The four laps after Hamilton pits (laps 16-19) Verstappen averages 1:31.816. Compared to the Mercedes' laps 2-5 pace of 1:31.79... Yes, lighter fuel but Mercedes were pushing each other and on much better tyres at that stage.

This is a good time to push, because that's what the Mercs are doing on their New Hard tyres. Bottas comes out hot and averages a 1:31.285 whilst Hamilton eases into his stint a little more (.5 slower on his out lap) and average 1:31.515. I suspect this premature push is where Bottas loses second to Hamilton, although it won't become clear for a while. I suspect that the extra heat he pumps into the tyres here hurts his pace and cripples his stint length.

And then it becomes clear that Mercedes don't have a fight on their hands. They've already lost. The next eights laps for the two Mercedes drivers are a 1:32.197 (VB) and a 1:32.476 (LH) average. Verstappen's eight laps? 1:31.455. Race. Won. I'm pretty sure Hamilton is already thinking about trying to beat Bottas at this point. Midway through that stint, once it's obvious Verstappen has this, he eases off, really cooling the tyres, then handles them slightly more gently than Bottas.

Verstappen pits for New Mediums on lap 27. Bottas pushes hard. Hamilton pushes a little. Verstappen gets Bottas immediately, despite a slow stop (and would have got him easily, despite what Bottas said in the interviews afterwards).

Then both Verstappen and Bottas pit on lap 32. I think Verstappen pitting caught Mercedes by surprise here. Certainly, it didn't look like Verstappen was running the pace of such a short stint. But, if we remember how quickly the Used Mediums of the Mercedes went off, maybe this was about as fast a stint as could be safely run. I'd love to know if anyone has radio or onboard of Verstappen's in lap? I've a suspicion that he dived into the pits, catching Mercedes by surprise.

Over the next eleven laps, Verstappen stretches his lead to a comfortable 5 seconds (and goes on, increasing it until he wins).

Meanwhile, in the other Mercedes, Bottas is taking 2/10ths out of Hamilton each lap but Hamilton's 26 lap stint is actually slightly faster than Bottas 18 lap stint (LH started one lap later). Hamilton pits (it's a slow stop, costing him 1.2 seconds on Bottas), comes out, sets his fastest lap of the race (a 1:28.451 on lap 43). Bottas has been doing 1:30.6s for a few laps and this sudden injection of pace clearly comes as a surprise. It takes him until the next lap to respond, doing his own fastest lap of the race (a 1:29.765 on lap 44). He can't maintain it though, and as his pace lifts into the 1:30s Hamilton dips in and out of the 1:28s.

Lap 46, a bored Verstappen, clearly not worried about a safety car, puts in his fastest lap, a 1:29.465. On the same lap, Albon puts in his fastest (a 1:29.477, on tyres 2 laps older). This, to me, suggests that Verstappen has more pace in hand and that his next two laps are 1:29.5s suggests that he didn't take everything out of the tyres that he could have. This is actually the only point I can see where I think Verstappen could have improved this race. With seven laps to go and with Hamilton on much fresher tyres, this is a bit of a gamble. A safety car with a DAS-equipped Mercedes right behind you on tyres 1/3rd the age of yours...it feels like an unnecessary risk. To be fair, Verstappen clearly had some more in reserve but I wish he'd waited until lap 50 or 51.

The last couple of laps, everyone eases off (especially the Mercedes).

- - - - - -

Matt Trumpets raised the interesting scenario that Red Bull screwed Albon. Matt thinks that Albon could've been battling with Bottas for 3rd at the end. I'm not sure I entirely agree with him (although I see where he is coming from) but what is absolutely clear is that calling him early was a terrible mistake. By the time he and Norris make their second stops, his early pit has gained him... 0.036 seconds and locked him into a two-stop strategy.

Where as, if he'd just stayed out, the midfield would have parted like the Red Sea and he'd have ended up second, with Bottas just behind him when Stroll pitted on lap 18. From there, he could've pitted at a reasonable time for a one-stopper (let's also say around lap 18, under- or over-cutting Stroll. Then, assuming he could match Leclerc's pace in an awful Ferrari, he's close to Hamilton when Hamilton comes out of the pits for his final stint and would probably see Bottas cruising over the finish line just in front of him (Bottas gave up ten seconds on the last three laps so I don't think Albon has a chance of actually battling him).

I also don't think Red Bull had confidence in the one-stop, or they wouldn't have wasted 21 seconds pitting Verstappen so he could do six laps on a pair of Mediums. But, with hindsight, this is a case where rolling the dice hurt Red Bull and it also suggests that even Red Bull didn't have a complete handle on how the tyres were going to work.

[Wynters]

Mercedes issue was with the rear tires

Iirc, Bottas was warned about his fronts early in both his first two stints.

He must not have had his DAS fitted!

[godlameroso]

The brake ducts on a modern F1 car can be worth up to 1 second per lap (minimum).

You didnt control read that did you

Well if Mercedes rear brake ducts are worth so much lap time, it's stands to reason that teams would protest Racing India's brake ducts. That's some technology that would not be easy to develop and it seems to give the Tracing Point's car a fair bit of pace. In essence they bought a leapfrog over Renault and McLaren and Ferrari, which would make the protest obvious.

Perhaps there's a turn of fates on the horizon, Mercedes is ahead with clever gimmicks and tricks, plus their monster engine, which forces RB to develop their own chassis at an accelerated pace. The gap closes but it isn't so apparent because their gimmick gives them unbeatable one lap performance. At least Honda is neutered but I feel that their implementation of a second power unit is strategic, because if they can't improve performance, they can improve robustness, which will tolerate the sort of performance they can unlock over the winter.

[Wynters]

Just heard the team radio for Verstappen during that super-brief stint on the Mediums. He came out Lap 27, lap 28 and lap 29 he was managing as Red Bull were concerned by the issues other teams had on the Mediums at the start. Then his engineer corrected himself and told him to push and go all out, which suggests Red Bull made a strategy shift during lap 29. Bottas also started pushing on lap 30 and they both pitted three laps later.

I wonder what made Red Bull change their mind?

The radio transmission also suggested that Mode 8 was a fairly slow mode and, after hassling his engineer, Verstappen got to use Mode 10.

[langedweil]

Chassis (Red Bull)-
The underlying assumption was that RB had the best chassis in Formula 1. Don't know if it was true then, but it sure ain't true now. Red Bull has a chassis gap to Merc that is costing it world championships.
/
RB has fallen in a rut of starting every...single...season with some fundamental chassis/aero problem that they need to solve.
/
Red Bull is underperforming on chassis, and that's what's losing them Championships. I have the impression that this hasn't really sunk in at RB, so I don't figure they will change.

Well, it's quite simple actually ..
Nearly every aero reg change over the last few years worked against the high-rake philosophy behind the Y250, as where the low-rake philosophy wasn't equally hurt by them.
Not to say Merc have been fools ofcourse, but they did not have to reinvent their platform as much.

[Hammerfist]

On Albon. My personal opinion is that he needs to improve his 1 lap pace. While I like Gasly as well but I do think Albon is stronger on race day as we see race after race. He seems to come alive on race day. While he does take some chances on overtaking, I much prefer that over watching Gasly taking laps after laps and not able to make a move last season. To be fair, both are fairly green but I think Albon being more willing to make a move, he will learn and improve.

On the car setup, one thing bothers me that people say the car runs better with fuel load maybe that changes the geometry. However as the car runs toward end of the race, fuel burns off, wouldn't the handling gets difficult again as in qualifying (given they are not running at qualy speed)?

I agree about Albon. He actually might have less raw pace than Gasly, but his race craft is among the best on the grid. He is a very dynamic overtaker.

Regarding Redbull's one lap pace or lack thereoff, I suspect it has to do with their engine qualifying mode not being on par with Merc's or even Renault's. But then again Albon did say that the car felt completely different in the Brooklyn Luffield section, almost in awe of how good the car was there during the race compared to qualifying. It is a bit strange that it could not be replicated in one lap trim.

[Hammerfist]

Looking at the three lead cars there are a few interesting things that come out. Not much that wasn't apparent though so this will be more of a commentary than a strict analysis.

Verstappen did well off the start, holding the gap to the next Mercedes better than pretty much all season (1.451 here, 1.549 last weekend, 2.879 in Styria and 2.047 in Austria). For the first four laps, the Mercedes are pushing and racing ach other. They add half a second to their lead over Verstappen each lap, business as usual, basically.

But, tail end of lap 4, Hamilton begins to ease off and this is where it becomes apparent that Mercedes have got a fight on their hands (reminder, they areon the Medium whilst Verstappen is on the Hard). For the next seven laps, Verstappen takes time out of both Mercedes, even Bottas in clear air. Over those seven laps, he takes an average of 0.236 seconds out of Bottas (and slightly more out of Hamilton). It's not clear whether Bottas is holding Hamilton up (the gap hovers at just over a second but that might just be both Mercedes being tyre limited at this point).

It's in the middle of this seven lap 'reel in' that Mercedes start, not just losing time to Verstappen, but going slower than the lap before. This, of course, impacts Verstappen (Hamilton slowing, slows Verstappen in turn). Mercedes pit Bottas on 13 (he's a second a lap slower than he was on lap 4).

Hamilton pits the next lap, staying out losing him about 3/10ths on Bottas, and this free Verstappen who proves that his slow pace was due to being held up but immediately slipping from mid-32s to high 31s. The four laps after Hamilton pits (laps 16-19) Verstappen averages 1:31.816. Compared to the Mercedes' laps 2-5 pace of 1:31.79... Yes, lighter fuel but Mercedes were pushing each other and on much better tyres at that stage.

This is a good time to push, because that's what the Mercs are doing on their New Hard tyres. Bottas comes out hot and averages a 1:31.285 whilst Hamilton eases into his stint a little more (.5 slower on his out lap) and average 1:31.515. I suspect this premature push is where Bottas loses second to Hamilton, although it won't become clear for a while. I suspect that the extra heat he pumps into the tyres here hurts his pace and cripples his stint length.

And then it becomes clear that Mercedes don't have a fight on their hands. They've already lost. The next eights laps for the two Mercedes drivers are a 1:32.197 (VB) and a 1:32.476 (LH) average. Verstappen's eight laps? 1:31.455. Race. Won. I'm pretty sure Hamilton is already thinking about trying to beat Bottas at this point. Midway through that stint, once it's obvious Verstappen has this, he eases off, really cooling the tyres, then handles them slightly more gently than Bottas.

Verstappen pits for New Mediums on lap 27. Bottas pushes hard. Hamilton pushes a little. Verstappen gets Bottas immediately, despite a slow stop (and would have got him easily, despite what Bottas said in the interviews afterwards).

Then both Verstappen and Bottas pit on lap 32. I think Verstappen pitting caught Mercedes by surprise here. Certainly, it didn't look like Verstappen was running the pace of such a short stint. But, if we remember how quickly the Used Mediums of the Mercedes went off, maybe this was about as fast a stint as could be safely run. I'd lvoe to know if anyone has radio or onboard of Verstappen's in lap? I've a suspicion that he dived into the pits, catching Mercedes by surprise.

Over the next eleven laps, Verstappen stretches his lead to a comfortable 5 seconds (and goes on, increasing it until he wins).

Meanwhile, in the other Mercedes, Bottas is taking 2/10ths out of Hamilton each lap but Hamilton's 26 lap stint is actually slightly faster than Bottas 18 lap stint (LH started one lap later). Hamilton pits (it's a slow stop, costing him 1.2 seconds on Bottas), comes out, sets his fastest lap of the race (a 1:28.451 on lap 43). Bottas has been doing 1:30.6s for a few laps and this sudden injection of pace clearly comes as a surprise. It takes him until the next lap to respond, doing his own fastest lap of the race (a 1:29.765 on lap 44). He can't maintain it though, and as his pace lifts into the 1:30s Hamilton dips in and out of the 1:28s.

Lap 46, a bored Verstappen, clearly not worried about a safety car, puts in his fastest lap, a 1:29.465. On the same lap, Albon puts in his fastest (a 1:29.477, on tyres 2 laps older). This, to me, suggests that Verstappen has more pace in hand and that his next two laps are 1:29.5s suggests that he didn't take everything out of the tyres that he could have. This is actually the only point I can see where I think Verstappen could have improved this race. With seven laps to go and with Hamilton on much fresher tyres, this is a bit of a gamble. A safety car with a DAS-equipped Mercedes right behind you on tyres 1/3rd the age of yours...it feels like an unnecessary risk. To be fair, Verstappen clearly had some more in reserve but I wish he'd waited until lap 50 or 51.

The last couple of laps, everyone eases off (especially the Mercedes).

- - - - - -

Matt Trumpets raised the interesting scenario that Red Bull screwed Albon. Matt thinks that Albon could've been battling with Bottas for 3rd at the end. I'm not sure I entirely agree with him (although I see where he is coming from) but what is absolutely clear is that calling him early was a terrible mistake. By the time he and Norris make their second stops, his early pit has gained him... 0.036 seconds and locked him into a two-stop strategy.

Where as, if he'd just stayed out, the midfield would have parted like the Red Sea and he'd have ended up second, with Bottas just behind him when Stroll pitted on lap 18. From there, he could've pitted at a reasonable time for a one-stopper (let's also say around lap 18, under- or over-cutting Stroll. Then, assuming he could match Leclerc's pace in an awful Ferrari, he's close to Hamilton when Hamilton comes out of the pits for his final stint and would probably see Bottas cruising over the finish line just in front of him (Bottas gave up ten seconds on the last three laps so I don't think Albon has a chance of actually battling him).

I also don't think Red Bull had confidence in the one-stop, or they wouldn't have wasted 21 seconds pitting Verstappen so he could do six laps on a pair of Mediums. But, with hindsight, this is a case where rolling the dice hurt Red Bull and it also suggests that even Red Bull didn't have a complete handle on how the tyres were going to work.

Very good summary. I enjoyed reading that.

Bottas's comments did not make sense to me either. From Mercedes falling asleep to "i had more pace", just didn't reflect on what happened. He was very slow on his last stint, which is why Lewis beat him. 20 laps on the hard tire should not have been that hard to manage.

[zibby43]

The brake ducts on a modern F1 car can be worth up to 1 second per lap (minimum).

You didnt control read that did you

Well if Mercedes rear brake ducts are worth so much lap time, it's stands to reason that teams would protest Racing India's brake ducts. That's some technology that would not be easy to develop and it seems to give the Tracing Point's car a fair bit of pace. In essence they bought a leapfrog over Renault and McLaren and Ferrari, which would make the protest obvious.

Perhaps there's a turn of fates on the horizon, Mercedes is ahead with clever gimmicks and tricks, plus their monster engine, which forces RB to develop their own chassis at an accelerated pace. The gap closes but it isn't so apparent because their gimmick gives them unbeatable one lap performance. At least Honda is neutered but I feel that their implementation of a second power unit is strategic, because if they can't improve performance, they can improve robustness, which will tolerate the sort of performance they can unlock over the winter.

It's not just Merc's brake ducts that are vital to lap time. Brake ducts are vital to lap time for every team in modern F1.

It's probably one of the reasons why the brake ducts finally became a listed part this year. But all of the teams that used to buy these parts are in a similar position to Racing Point. No one, including Haas (who bought Ferrari ducts, and the entire Ferrari car in '15 via a loophole), can just forget the designs that used to use when "designing" their ducts this year. But that's an entirely separate discussion.

On a side note, I think it's extremely insulting and way off the mark to characterize Merc's package as "gimmicks and tricks." It's the best chassis on the grid, and it has been for the past 2 years. It's been the best PU in the hybrid era, and that would've been the case last year, but for Ferrari's 1-year, 1-trick pony.

Mercedes haven't even put any major aero upgrades on the car this year, and they brought zero upgrades to Silverstone 2. Barcelona, on the other hand, has historically been the circuit where Merc brings their biggest upgrade package of the season.

[tangodjango]

You didnt control read that did you

Well if Mercedes rear brake ducts are worth so much lap time, it's stands to reason that teams would protest Racing India's brake ducts. That's some technology that would not be easy to develop and it seems to give the Tracing Point's car a fair bit of pace. In essence they bought a leapfrog over Renault and McLaren and Ferrari, which would make the protest obvious.

Perhaps there's a turn of fates on the horizon, Mercedes is ahead with clever gimmicks and tricks, plus their monster engine, which forces RB to develop their own chassis at an accelerated pace. The gap closes but it isn't so apparent because their gimmick gives them unbeatable one lap performance. At least Honda is neutered but I feel that their implementation of a second power unit is strategic, because if they can't improve performance, they can improve robustness, which will tolerate the sort of performance they can unlock over the winter.

It's not just Merc's brake ducts that are vital to lap time. Brake ducts are vital to lap time for every team in modern F1.

It's probably one of the reasons why the brake ducts finally became a listed part this year. But all of the teams that used to buy these parts are in a similar position to Racing Point. No one, including Haas (who bought Ferrari ducts, and the entire Ferrari car in '15 via a loophole), can just forget the designs that used to use when "designing" their ducts this year. But that's an entirely separate discussion.

On a side note, I think it's extremely insulting and way off the mark to characterize Merc's package as "gimmicks and tricks." It's the best chassis on the grid, and it has been for the past 2 years. It's been the best PU in the hybrid era, and that would've been the case last year, but for Ferrari's 1-year, 1-trick pony.

Mercedes haven't even put any major aero upgrades on the car this year, and they brought zero upgrades to Silverstone 2. Barcelona, on the other hand, has historically been the circuit where Merc brings their biggest upgrade package of the season.

If the team and cars were reversed this year no doubt the same supposed 'tricks and gimmicks' would be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[Marti_EF3]

Race pace



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Stint 4