[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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godlameroso
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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ispano6 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:06 am
Lock2nl wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:38 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:01 pm


Honda and RedBull have data that indicates when Albon is confident in the car that he can match Verstappen closely. It seems they think Albon is a driver with a driving style closer to Verstappen and that Gasly wasn't as close in the same machinery. Albon is in a confidence slump and with tracks he's relatively new to and tires that don't give him the grip he needs suffers quite a bit. Imola will probably be a tough race as would the Turkish GP since he's probably not as experienced on those tracks either. A track like Silverstone or Suzuka would be a different story.
He comes close in the fast corners. Those were the words of Helmut himself. i would not call that "mach".
Yamamoto, Tanabe, and Asaki have said in telemetry data there are sections that Alex matches or is even faster than Max. In any case, I said "match Verstappen closely". BTW, recall Suzuka 2019 Q3 - Both Max and Alex's laptime was an identical 1:27.851. That is an exact match. I was there.
I think that has something to do with Albon having a lot of experience racing in Suzuka because of super formula.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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Sieper
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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I remember also what Lock2nl said, they confirmed straight away they made a setup mistake that weekend.
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Wouter
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Sieper wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:32 pm
I remember also what Lock2nl said, they confirmed straight away they made a setup mistake that weekend.
13-10-2019.
It was a problematic session for the Dutchman, who suffered from energy recovery system issues during the second part of qualifying.

However, the problems were resolved in time for Q3, and Verstappen was able to complete a ‘normal’ session, but he believed that his qualifying efforts were hampered by the amount of downforce being applied via the car’s setup.

“Qualifying wasn’t amazing and P5 is not what we hoped for, so I’m happy that we have the race straight away now to try and make a good result out of it,” said Verstappen.

“I had a problem with the boost energy in Q2 but that was all fine in Q3. I think maybe we were not aggressive enough and it wasn’t ideal not having a slipstream down the straights as we are running so much downforce.

“It’s very windy out there, especially in the second sector and on the main straight but that was the same for everyone so there is nothing to complain about. I’m a bit disappointed now but I have confidence that the race can be much better so that is the focus.”

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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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ispano6 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:06 am
Lock2nl wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:38 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:01 pm


Honda and RedBull have data that indicates when Albon is confident in the car that he can match Verstappen closely. It seems they think Albon is a driver with a driving style closer to Verstappen and that Gasly wasn't as close in the same machinery. Albon is in a confidence slump and with tracks he's relatively new to and tires that don't give him the grip he needs suffers quite a bit. Imola will probably be a tough race as would the Turkish GP since he's probably not as experienced on those tracks either. A track like Silverstone or Suzuka would be a different story.
He comes close in the fast corners. Those were the words of Helmut himself. i would not call that "mach".
Yamamoto, Tanabe, and Asaki have said in telemetry data there are sections that Alex matches or is even faster than Max. In any case, I said "match Verstappen closely". BTW, recall Suzuka 2019 Q3 - Both Max and Alex's laptime was an identical 1:27.851. That is an exact match. I was there.
To corroborate what you are saying, I think Red Bull knows his raw pace is good but they are puzzled why he can't put it together consistently.

''Against Max everyone, except Lewis Hamilton, probably loses out in qualifying. In the race, however, we need someone who can constantly deliver the performance. Albon is a puzzle for us. He has the talent but lacks consistency and confidence. In some corners, he wins something on Max, but in a simple corner or with the wind he can lose a lot of time,"

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/71538/ma ... tion-.html
“Hamilton’s talent is perhaps even more than that of Ayrton or Schumacher or Fernando." - Rubens Barrichello

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ME4ME
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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In no way meaning this in a negative or angry way, but it's worth nothing that Albon might match Verstappen in some corners. It's silly to even bring it up. It's like Mclaren in their last Honda-year claiming to have a great car because they were good in some mini-sectors once in a while. True or not it didn't bring them anything. Even if you can put together an entire good lap once in a while, it doesn't mean you're as good a driver as your main rival. Look at Bottas, surfing his wave on fridays, only for it to collapse once things get real. Or having a good or even dominant race once in a while - like Webber had once or twice per year, it wasn't enough to beat his team mate most of the time.

I think by now it should be clear that Albon is out of his depth and he and Red Bull should try something else next year. Maybe it's unfair. Maybe it was too much too early for him. What you've got to respect is that he hasn't made any excuses himself. Only others, outsiders, have done that for him.

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McG
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Verstappen 162 points fighting for 2nd in championship.

Albon 64 points 8th in championship with Gasly 1 point behind and Norris 1 point in front.

Why are you guys making excuses for Albon. He needs to go.
Honda, the power of giving up.

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Big Tea
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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McG wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:10 pm
Verstappen 162 points fighting for 2nd in championship.

Albon 64 points 8th in championship with Gasly 1 point behind and Norris 1 point in front.

Why are you guys making excuses for Albon. He needs to go.
I tend to agree at first thought, or second thought, his car needs to be fixed.
Either on or the other, its no good at all as it is.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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I thought that Gasley wasn't given enough time and well Albon has gotten almost double what Gasley got. Thing they will get better at dealing with pressure in a couple of years. As for right now, neither of them is ready.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Wouter wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:42 pm
Speaking to Gazzetta dello Sport, he declared: "We are firmly against freezing power units as it is against the spirit of F1.

"I think it is important to emphasise that the current rules already provide for freezing in 2023. Plus, F1 has ambitious goals in terms of sustainability.

"Already from 2022, the regulations provide for the introduction of a fuel with a 10 percent ethanol content, but the FIA wants to reach 100 per cent as soon as possible: ideally the following year.

"This inevitably involves the development of some engine components. It is a very complicated subject, and we are actively talking about it with all the parties involved."
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/renau ... =widget-22

Abiteboul, is Renault now for or against the freezing of engines in F1?
"It's a good question. If you had asked me six months ago we would have pushed hard for an even lower budget cap, to try to keep chassis costs down, but also to reduce those related to the engine by accepting freezing. But Red Bull Racing and Honda were against it and we accepted it. We continued on a different path. "

"Since then we have been very busy working on the 2022 engine platform. So if you ask me today what I think about engine freezing, my position is obviously different from what I had 6 months ago. I am against engine freezing, we have no intention of stopping what could be a very important platform for us. We don't accept that. "

"Now we have to talk to find a solution for the engines of the future in the medium-long term also from the point of view of the sustainability of the new power units. We are in favor of talking about medium-long term plans for the engines of the future, but certainly not about the freezing of power units ".

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godlameroso
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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diffuser wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:10 pm
Wouter wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:42 pm
Speaking to Gazzetta dello Sport, he declared: "We are firmly against freezing power units as it is against the spirit of F1.

"I think it is important to emphasise that the current rules already provide for freezing in 2023. Plus, F1 has ambitious goals in terms of sustainability.

"Already from 2022, the regulations provide for the introduction of a fuel with a 10 percent ethanol content, but the FIA wants to reach 100 per cent as soon as possible: ideally the following year.

"This inevitably involves the development of some engine components. It is a very complicated subject, and we are actively talking about it with all the parties involved."
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/renau ... =widget-22

Abiteboul, is Renault now for or against the freezing of engines in F1?
"It's a good question. If you had asked me six months ago we would have pushed hard for an even lower budget cap, to try to keep chassis costs down, but also to reduce those related to the engine by accepting freezing. But Red Bull Racing and Honda were against it and we accepted it. We continued on a different path. "

"Since then we have been very busy working on the 2022 engine platform. So if you ask me today what I think about engine freezing, my position is obviously different from what I had 6 months ago. I am against engine freezing, we have no intention of stopping what could be a very important platform for us. We don't accept that. "

"Now we have to talk to find a solution for the engines of the future in the medium-long term also from the point of view of the sustainability of the new power units. We are in favor of talking about medium-long term plans for the engines of the future, but certainly not about the freezing of power units ".
It's obvious why Renault and Ferrari are against the freeze. They're both moving to split turbo layouts, and they're not confident they can develop their power units to a satisfactory level if the freeze happens in 2022.

Because even if they make a reliable power unit, they will be able to make architecture improvements, which will translate into chassis improvements. By freezing the power unit development, they can't improve their packaging. The cooling requirements are directly related to how hot you can run the power units. The radiators comprise a big part of the overall drag of the car. So power unit developments and chassis developments are tied together.

This becomes even more important for the new aero regulations because the aero is so restricted, that bigger aero gains come from packaging improvements. Fine tuning aero will yield results, but packaging improvements will yield bigger results earlier on, and give you more aero potential which you can fine tune. It will also lock in your advantage because if you start the year with the best packaged power unit, you will start the season with the car that has the most aero potential. The power unit is locked for the year, you will be at a disadvantage ALL season because of any packaging deficiencies.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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etusch
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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They are trying to give PU to Redbull

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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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If it wasn't so tragic it would be funny how badly big-picture managed this PU formula has been. An absolute Shakespearean tragedy

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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Sieper wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:32 pm
I remember also what Lock2nl said, they confirmed straight away they made a setup mistake that weekend.
Set up mistake for only Max's car but not Alex's?

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Wouter
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Sieper
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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ispano6 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:41 pm
Sieper wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:32 pm
I remember also what Lock2nl said, they confirmed straight away they made a setup mistake that weekend.
Set up mistake for only Max's car but not Alex's?
Well, yes. Alex had less wing. But maybe mistake is a big word, set-up difference that turned out les favourable in qualifying. Better maybe in race, but in race Max was rammed of the track by Charles.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/