2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:46 pm
mclaren111 wrote:Most positive aspect for me this weekend was how much we reduced the gap compared to last year...

Last year we were 1.2 seconds of pole...
Mclaren was the team with the largest improvement Year on Year at Portimao been not only closer to the front, but faster than in 2020:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202104 ... aecff8.jpg


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I'm confused...Portimao is the next race....
You shouldn’t be!... Lol

I clearly made a mistake listing the race (was doing some reviews of Portimao last season and it got stuck in my head)... It is for Imola... Thanks for pointing it out, will edit the post.


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mwillems
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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PhillipM wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:21 pm
Because you need quite a time delta here to get past - especially at a restart with no DRS for a couple of laps.
Norris stayed within DRS range of Max for a lap until he backed off to stop the tyres cooking, I don't think that was too bad.
No it wasn't. All I'm saying is that on softs or on mediums, we would end up the same time behind Max, so nearly a second a lap down is probably fair I think.

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
PhillipM wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:21 pm
Because you need quite a time delta here to get past - especially at a restart with no DRS for a couple of laps.
Norris stayed within DRS range of Max for a lap until he backed off to stop the tyres cooking, I don't think that was too bad.
No it wasn't. All I'm saying is that on softs or on mediums, we would end up the same time behind Max, so nearly a second a lap down is probably fair I think.
I wouldn’t be so sure about it... Lando was definitely saving tires from the first chicane until before Rivazza (since he knew Leclerc couldn’t overtake there)... Saving the rears for traction out of the last 2 turns to have enough gap before the main straight... Lando should have been able to lean more on the Mediums and his pace would have been faster without the tire saving needs.

The following is an snapshot of Verstappen (on the left) and Norris (on the right) from lap 17 until the first Pitstops (Lap 17 is when Daniel let’s Norris through)... Both on the same tire (inters)... Norris lap times are not that far from Max:

Image


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SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Lando’s first lap... He had a good getaway and could have made a place on Daniel, he almost took him out!... He then was hit by Stroll before turn 2.




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mwillems
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:00 pm
mwillems wrote:
Macklaren wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:03 pm


While this is an objective analysis, I don't think it is entirely fair. Lando has said that he went into tire saving mode within half a lap of the restart, knowing that tire life was going to be critical at the end. It was evident that the opporunity was with defense from behind than attack in front. More importantly, Lando was able to keep Perez behind him on same tires with identical life after their first stop, which is very encouraging. Same with Bottas at the start of the race.
But if we had a faster car we could restart on Mediums and we wouldn't have kept up with Max in those first few laps, so I don't think it would be any different. The only difference was that we tried to go for track position early as we didn't have a clear speed advantage over Ferrari at that point without the tyres.
There is still a considerable gap to the front runners on race pace, there is no denying that... But Lando not chasing after Verstappen after the restart was simply in order to protect the tires and not be a sitting duck at the end of the race.

Why the Soft Tires versus the Mediums? Not because of how fast the car is, but how much faster you can warm the Soft tires... In a track that still showed to be a very difficult one to overtake, that move on Leclerc was critical and it was mainly due to Tire delta on that lap... After that it was a matter of nursing the tires during 80% of the lap and push in the last 2 corners to make sure there was enough gap with Leclerc for the main straight.


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If the car was faster then it wouldn't need soft tyres to jump the Ferrari and make a gap, they'd do it on the more durable tyres, in the same manner as some cars can run Q2 on yellow marked tyres.

Mclaren didn't think that was the best option as the car didn't have enough pace to get by the Ferrari with both cars being on the same tyre at roughly the same temperature. It was strategy to trade off durability v immediate tyre performance in Lieu of raw speed.

You also assume that max was going full beans, but I very much doubt he was.

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:00 pm
mwillems wrote: But if we had a faster car we could restart on Mediums and we wouldn't have kept up with Max in those first few laps, so I don't think it would be any different. The only difference was that we tried to go for track position early as we didn't have a clear speed advantage over Ferrari at that point without the tyres.
There is still a considerable gap to the front runners on race pace, there is no denying that... But Lando not chasing after Verstappen after the restart was simply in order to protect the tires and not be a sitting duck at the end of the race.

Why the Soft Tires versus the Mediums? Not because of how fast the car is, but how much faster you can warm the Soft tires... In a track that still showed to be a very difficult one to overtake, that move on Leclerc was critical and it was mainly due to Tire delta on that lap... After that it was a matter of nursing the tires during 80% of the lap and push in the last 2 corners to make sure there was enough gap with Leclerc for the main straight.


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If the car was faster then it wouldn't need soft tyres to jump the Ferrari and make a gap, they'd do it on the more durable tyres, in the same manner as some cars can run Q2 on yellow marked tyres.

Mclaren didn't think that was the best option as the car didn't have enough pace to get by the Ferrari with both cars being on the same tyre at roughly the same temperature. It was strategy to trade off durability v immediate tyre performance in Lieu of raw speed.

You also assume that max was going full beans, but I very much doubt he was.
Passing at Imola was extremely difficult as proven by both Lando with Leclerc (who was on the DRS for almost the entirety of the time after the restart), as well as by Daniel, who even when he was behind Lando’s pace all race, managed to keep Stroll (also on DRS for most of the end of the GP) behind.

The team has better data than either of us and this time around, their gamble paid off... There was no assurance that Lando would have been able to make the move on Leclerc on Mediums and following Leclerc would have hampered performance regardless... Therefore starting on Mediums could have easily meant finishing P4 regardless (assuming Hamilton would have passed both Lando and Leclerc)... The opportunity was at the start, where been able to have tires on the best operating temperature (at a very cold track) would give an advantage... Gaining track position early is what gave Mclaren a podium... Leclerc was faster than Lando and had a tire advantage towards the end, but he just couldn’t complete the move.

Regarding Max going full beans... I don’t know, but what I can tell is that at that point in the race, Hamilton was also closing the gap to him, so I don’t think he was just cruising knowing his lead was shrinking... The reality is that even when the front runners are cruising, most often than not they still have a huge delta to the cars in the midfield, in this case, Lando’s times were close to Max’s that is very impressive indeed.

Also... There was no reason for Lando to “attack” and degrade his tires more than necessary after the restart, he had one job and that was to keep Leclerc behind... It wasn’t as if he could have overtaken Max at the front... So that 0.8 second a lap that Max pulled on Lando was more due to his strategy to defend than pace on the car.


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mwillems
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:50 pm
mwillems wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:00 pm

There is still a considerable gap to the front runners on race pace, there is no denying that... But Lando not chasing after Verstappen after the restart was simply in order to protect the tires and not be a sitting duck at the end of the race.

Why the Soft Tires versus the Mediums? Not because of how fast the car is, but how much faster you can warm the Soft tires... In a track that still showed to be a very difficult one to overtake, that move on Leclerc was critical and it was mainly due to Tire delta on that lap... After that it was a matter of nursing the tires during 80% of the lap and push in the last 2 corners to make sure there was enough gap with Leclerc for the main straight.


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If the car was faster then it wouldn't need soft tyres to jump the Ferrari and make a gap, they'd do it on the more durable tyres, in the same manner as some cars can run Q2 on yellow marked tyres.

Mclaren didn't think that was the best option as the car didn't have enough pace to get by the Ferrari with both cars being on the same tyre at roughly the same temperature. It was strategy to trade off durability v immediate tyre performance in Lieu of raw speed.

You also assume that max was going full beans, but I very much doubt he was.
Passing at Imola was extremely difficult as proven by both Lando with Leclerc (who was on the DRS for almost the entirety of the time after the restart), as well as by Daniel, who even when he was behind Lando’s pace all race, managed to keep Stroll (also on DRS for most of the end of the GP) behind.

The team has better data than either of us and this time around, their gamble paid off... There was no assurance that Lando would have been able to make the move on Leclerc on Mediums and following Leclerc would have hampered performance regardless... Therefore starting on Mediums could have easily meant finishing P4 regardless (assuming Hamilton would have passed both Lando and Leclerc)... The opportunity was at the start, where been able to have tires on the best operating temperature (at a very cold track) would give an advantage... Gaining track position early is what gave Mclaren a podium... Leclerc was faster than Lando and had a tire advantage towards the end, but he just couldn’t complete the move.

Regarding Max going full beans... I don’t know, but what I can tell is that at that point in the race, Hamilton was also closing the gap to him, so I don’t think he was just cruising knowing his lead was shrinking... The reality is that even when the front runners are cruising, most often than not they still have a huge delta to the cars in the midfield, in this case, Lando’s times were close to Max’s that is very impressive indeed.

Also... There was no reason for Lando to “attack” and degrade his tires more than necessary after the restart, he had one job and that was to keep Leclerc behind... It wasn’t as if he could have overtaken Max at the front... So that 0.8 second a lap that Max pulled on Lando was more due to his strategy to defend than pace on the car.


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I'm not questioning the strategy at all so I'm not really going to go down that route.

But I don't understand how a comment can be made that Lando wasn't attacking and ignore the fact that he was pushing to keep a gap to the Ferraris and then Hamilton, pushing for quite some time to try to stay ahead, so for large parts he wasn't conserving his tyres, he was racing hard.

And despite this Max did pull ahead considerably and whilst he wasn't cruising, I suspect he had more in the tank.

Unfortunately, we aren't near their race pace yet.

PhillipM
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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He wasn't pushing, that's why the ferraris and Hamilton caught him, he was trying to go as slow as he could without them getting past, keeping them just in the dirty air without killing his soft tyres before the end of the race. He pushed for a single lap and opened a more than big enough gap.
Last edited by PhillipM on Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:50 pm
mwillems wrote: If the car was faster then it wouldn't need soft tyres to jump the Ferrari and make a gap, they'd do it on the more durable tyres, in the same manner as some cars can run Q2 on yellow marked tyres.

Mclaren didn't think that was the best option as the car didn't have enough pace to get by the Ferrari with both cars being on the same tyre at roughly the same temperature. It was strategy to trade off durability v immediate tyre performance in Lieu of raw speed.

You also assume that max was going full beans, but I very much doubt he was.
Passing at Imola was extremely difficult as proven by both Lando with Leclerc (who was on the DRS for almost the entirety of the time after the restart), as well as by Daniel, who even when he was behind Lando’s pace all race, managed to keep Stroll (also on DRS for most of the end of the GP) behind.

The team has better data than either of us and this time around, their gamble paid off... There was no assurance that Lando would have been able to make the move on Leclerc on Mediums and following Leclerc would have hampered performance regardless... Therefore starting on Mediums could have easily meant finishing P4 regardless (assuming Hamilton would have passed both Lando and Leclerc)... The opportunity was at the start, where been able to have tires on the best operating temperature (at a very cold track) would give an advantage... Gaining track position early is what gave Mclaren a podium... Leclerc was faster than Lando and had a tire advantage towards the end, but he just couldn’t complete the move.

Regarding Max going full beans... I don’t know, but what I can tell is that at that point in the race, Hamilton was also closing the gap to him, so I don’t think he was just cruising knowing his lead was shrinking... The reality is that even when the front runners are cruising, most often than not they still have a huge delta to the cars in the midfield, in this case, Lando’s times were close to Max’s that is very impressive indeed.

Also... There was no reason for Lando to “attack” and degrade his tires more than necessary after the restart, he had one job and that was to keep Leclerc behind... It wasn’t as if he could have overtaken Max at the front... So that 0.8 second a lap that Max pulled on Lando was more due to his strategy to defend than pace on the car.


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I'm not questioning the strategy at all so I'm not really going to go down that route.

But I don't understand how a comment can be made that Lando wasn't attacking and ignore the fact that he was pushing to defend, from the Ferraris and then from Hamilton, so he was pushing for quite some time to try to stay ahead, so for large parts he wasn't conserving his tyres, he was racing hard.

And despite this Max did pull ahead considerably and whilst he wasn't cruising, I suspect he had more in the tank.
He was pushing on the fraction of the lap that he needed to push and taking care of the tires on the rest of the lap... He was pushing the tires at the end of the lap in order to get a good exit towards the main straight... He was pretty consistent in S2 during almost 30 laps at 27.2 (with just 1 tenth variance during that stint)... He was losing most of his time to Verstappen in S2 (at a rate of bit more than half a second a lap).

In S2 (which is the most punishing one for the tires) he wasn’t pushing, he didn’t need to since there was no possibility for Leclerc to make a pass on the sector and he (Leclerc) couldn’t get much closer to the downforce loss by been so close to Lando... He will just push his tires by the end of S3 (not even in the first portion of S3)... As a reference, Daniel (who clearly was behind in Pace to Lando was matching his S2 times in the last stint (and actually Stroll was faster than Lando during that sector).

Lando would be conserving not only tires, but also battery / deployment for the main straight (which is a suboptimal deployment strategy probably).

That’s at least what I can see from the data... He needed to make the Soft tires which were supposed to last 20 laps to make it to 30 laps, the only way to do so was managing his pace, so no, he wasn’t “attacking”.


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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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I think that the racing pace of Lando is somewhat compromised by the start and the need to protect the tires in the second segment.
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CjC
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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I’m not a huge fan of such sell to lease arrangements personally

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... l/6365441/
Just a fan's point of view

SmallSoldier
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2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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CjC wrote:I’m not a huge fan of such sell to lease arrangements personally

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... l/6365441/
It’s a good financial move... The MTC is a fix asset that doesn’t add value to the team / company.

By selling it an leasing it back, Mclaren (and any company that follows that model) has a cash influx that can be invested in items that are value add and have a potential ROI for them (such as equipment, tools, people, etc.) or reduce debt, therefore freeing up additional cash to run operations.

With a 20 year deal, there is no short term concern in regards to the ability of the team to run their operations normally... The deal should also have extension clauses near it’s term and in 20 years, the facilities required to run the team and automotive group might be different and it would be easier to adapt to those at that point.


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Jolle
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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CjC wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:32 pm
I’m not a huge fan of such sell to lease arrangements personally

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... l/6365441/
Unfortunately it’s all going to outstanding loans dating back from the initial investments in the automotive sector and the stock buyback from Dennis.
It’s a sacrifice. Before this deal, their real estate was part of the deal that covered the loans. Now they pay rent, no benefit anymore from the rise in value of their real estate.

This was already a problem before covid, I expect Corona made it worse. (Last year their outstanding loans were already bigger then all their assets combined).

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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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CjC wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:32 pm
I’m not a huge fan of such sell to lease arrangements personally

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... l/6365441/
It was a necessary ''evil'' on one hand and a smart fiscal move on the other.
I don't have any problem with it...
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SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Unboxed:




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