Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
roon
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by roon » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:58 pm

They talked for nine minutes and said nothing. All this recent clickbait boils down to: some new aerospace engineers helped with development. Merc are like: "We did something similar seven years ago."

Mudflap
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Mudflap » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:11 am

I think the whole jet engine collaboration is another one of those things that the media blew out of proportion.
According to Tanabe it didn't bring a significant improvement:
Q: Tanabe-san, Paul says that you're bringing upgrades as fast as you can and three of your cars run the new spec-3 power unit in France. All four cars are running it here. Did it perform at Paul Ricard as you expected?
Toyoharu Tanabe: Basically yes. We could see some improvement in the data when we ran the lastest spec at the track. And then, we compared to the dyno data and we see improvement trackside as well. But, on the other hand, the improvement is not significant, so as I mentioned before, when we introduced spec-3, there was a reliability and then a performance improvement - but the performance is not huge, which means we still keep pushing to perform well.

Q: You talk about pushing to perform well. It's quite early in the season to have introduced your third upgrade. Will there be another new spec this season and, if that's the case, can you tell us when that might be?
TT: Yes, so as you are thinking, just before halfway in the season, we already apply third PU and we are planning to introduce another spec sometime this season - but I don't tell you exactly when and how much improvement we will have. We will announce later.

Q: You've said development of this spec-3 involved working closely with Honda's jet division. Can you just tell us how that worked?
TT: So, we have a Honda R&D, so the one division is Honda Sakura R&D which takes care of the Formula One racing project. Then we have a big technical centre including many types of technology. The we use that resource and collaborate very closely. Not only jet engines but also other parts. As a result, we introduce at the last race the new turbocharger using... from the collaboration between Honda Racing technology and jet engine technology. So, we tried to make performance better, not only from the small Racing group but also the all the resources of Honda R&D.
How much TQ does it make though?

GhostF1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by GhostF1 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:27 am

Mudflap wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:11 am
I think the whole jet engine collaboration is another one of those things that the media blew out of proportion.
According to Tanabe it didn't bring a significant improvement:
Q: Tanabe-san, Paul says that you're bringing upgrades as fast as you can and three of your cars run the new spec-3 power unit in France. All four cars are running it here. Did it perform at Paul Ricard as you expected?
Toyoharu Tanabe: Basically yes. We could see some improvement in the data when we ran the lastest spec at the track. And then, we compared to the dyno data and we see improvement trackside as well. But, on the other hand, the improvement is not significant, so as I mentioned before, when we introduced spec-3, there was a reliability and then a performance improvement - but the performance is not huge, which means we still keep pushing to perform well.

Q: You talk about pushing to perform well. It's quite early in the season to have introduced your third upgrade. Will there be another new spec this season and, if that's the case, can you tell us when that might be?
TT: Yes, so as you are thinking, just before halfway in the season, we already apply third PU and we are planning to introduce another spec sometime this season - but I don't tell you exactly when and how much improvement we will have. We will announce later.

Q: You've said development of this spec-3 involved working closely with Honda's jet division. Can you just tell us how that worked?
TT: So, we have a Honda R&D, so the one division is Honda Sakura R&D which takes care of the Formula One racing project. Then we have a big technical centre including many types of technology. The we use that resource and collaborate very closely. Not only jet engines but also other parts. As a result, we introduce at the last race the new turbocharger using... from the collaboration between Honda Racing technology and jet engine technology. So, we tried to make performance better, not only from the small Racing group but also the all the resources of Honda R&D.
Peak performance improvement, marginal, Honda has maintained this position from the start but they made a much louder noise about the whole PU becoming much more energy efficient with this upgrade.

trinidefender
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by trinidefender » Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:44 am

From everything that I can see the main improvement was reliability with the MGU-H. This might be one of the key factors allowing Honda to run it harder without reliability problems that seemed to plague them before.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:53 pm

ispano6 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:43 pm
PhillipM wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:48 pm
That's nothing new it's something that's been done for decades, it's been looked at before for turbocharger turbines in motorsport before as well.
Mudflap wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:55 pm
Not really needed for small radial turbines where you have sufficient support from the back disk.

Dove tailed axial turbinw blades are indeed a common application.
Never in the form of this type of application or pressures. So characteristic of Japanese technology (and attention to material detail and quality) and disappointed to hear the "over engineered" response to it. Perhaps it is over-engineered to some other's reliability and durability standards, but not this Honda's! Good to see Honda pushing the envelope like they did during the Golden Era. They will need this durability and piece of mind to utilize this next stage of development.
Rolls royce been doing it for years.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

GhostF1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by GhostF1 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:23 am

Max saying Honda have brought them even more power this weekend and he was able to match Mercedes on the straights and he thinks he'll be stronger again during the race.

All signs point to a good race! Let's hope this is the one we've been waiting for!!!

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:22 pm

The whole package keeps improving, and it always takes a few races worth of learning to gauge exactly how hard or for how long you can push the power unit. Near the end of the race, I heard Max's engineer on the radio telling him to use a setting for extra power until the end of the race. His pace markedly improved on that engine mode.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ispano6 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:48 pm


restless
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by restless » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:11 pm

I think maybe, just maybe, they went all or nothing - power to The Max , win or lose it all.
Think this unit won't hold 7 races, but who cares!? ;)

sn809
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by sn809 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:22 pm

We should add
#PoweredbyHonda

damager21
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by damager21 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:26 pm

restless wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:11 pm
I think maybe, just maybe, they went all or nothing - power to The Max , win or lose it all.
Think this unit won't hold 7 races, but who cares!? ;)
It does not have to last 7 race. I feel another engine upgrade will available immediately post summer break

epo
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by epo » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:51 pm

damager21 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:26 pm
restless wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:11 pm
I think maybe, just maybe, they went all or nothing - power to The Max , win or lose it all.
Think this unit won't hold 7 races, but who cares!? ;)
It does not have to last 7 race. I feel another engine upgrade will available immediately post summer break
Marko told a significant power upgrade Is coming at Spa or Monza.

nzjrs
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Location: Austria

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by nzjrs » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:18 pm

Interesting comments in the press conference - Bottas said they couldn't run high engine modes (for cooling reasons), and had to lift and coast often. Compared with Max and Honda who ran mode 11 for 30 laps. It's a good sign concerning the cooling and the entire package.

toraabe
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by toraabe » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:32 pm

Things are beginning to come together. Big congratulations to Honda.

lio007
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by lio007 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:38 pm

It's been so overwhelming to witness the win live today at the GP! Well deserved!