Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
saviour stivala
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:50 pm

saviour stivala wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:11 pm
As to the arguments of what broke on Riccairdo’s Renault and triggered all that smoke we can only speculate, as to the cascading damage we will have or can have a hint when the power unit elements used report for the weekend will be out.
And not only all that can be done (as regards to what triggered all that smoke) is 'speculate' but now Renault has put a seal on all the speculation by introducing a new complete power unit before the race (all six elements), most probably forced to introduce their intended last upgrade for the season. a race or two earlier than intended, all this while having to run their other engine in safe mode in this past race.

Pyrone89
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Pyrone89 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:58 pm

So did they run the Spec C in Hungary with RIC or was that a new B spec?

saviour stivala
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:57 pm

Renault’s ICE Number 16. TC 15. H 14. K 12. ES 11 and CE 12 so far is most probably their latest intended C-specification (last upgrade) for the season). As if that is not the case when he will use the new upgraded power unit he is guaranteed another start from the back of the grid.

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by carisi2k » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:57 am

saviour stivala wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:52 am
Reliability wise (power unit elements used so far –before Hungary) there isn’t much to choose between Renault and Honda power units.
Renault used 1 ES and 2 CE more than Honda running a total of 4 cars.
Honda used 1 more H than Renault running a total of 4 cars.
Renault:- ICE 15. TC 14. H 13, K 11, ES 10. CE 11.
Honda:- ICE 15. TC 14. H 14. K 11. ES 9. CE 9.
There is a huge difference in reliability as these numbers don't tell the whole story.

The Renaults have used that amount of PU's because of failures. Honda on the other hand have been pushing development and so many of those elements are still available in the pool and can be used in friday practice if they so desire.

It is the difference between iron man and spider man after the snappening. One is still around and able to do work while the other is dust.

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by GhostF1 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:52 am

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/45417/ab ... 0-hp-.html

"We have passed the 1000 horsepower some Grands Prix ago. We know that there are people who are skeptical and make jokes about it" the Frenchman refers to Verstappen's statement. "We just can't always use it because the engine is at risk," he refers to reliability.

Umm is this a positive thing to say? If anything this is negative and just confirms it's all PR smoke... Is how much power you can produce if the engine can't hack it even relevant? On that basis all four manufacturers can run significantly more power... what a ridiculous comment.

Reign it in, and sort the reliability it's literally the achilles heel for the two teams, McLaren more so right now..

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PhillipM » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:37 am

Err. That's how every single engine in F1 works. You don't run full power mode unless you absolutely need to.

Bill
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Bill » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:17 pm

No some teams can run their top end power for longer that's the distinction that an area Honda has prioritized

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PhillipM » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:35 pm

And you still won't see them use full power mode or overtake unless they absolutely have to and have cleared it with the engineers before using it. Regardless of team. It takes too much life out of the PU to run it in the race much.

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:29 pm

Not to mention you'd run out of fuel.
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Mudflap » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:36 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:29 pm
Not to mention you'd run out of fuel.
Not necessarily - peak power is still 100 kg/h at higher TE.
How much TQ does it make though?

SmallSoldier
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by SmallSoldier » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:03 pm

Mudflap wrote:
godlameroso wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:29 pm
Not to mention you'd run out of fuel.
Not necessarily - peak power is still 100 kg/h at higher TE.
That’s one that I was thinking about the other day... Maximum fuel usage is 100Kg/h... Maximum amount of fuel is 105Kg... The races last more than 1.7 hours... There shouldn’t be able to drive at maximum power during a race if they are on the throttle for more than 50% of the time.


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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:46 pm

SmallSoldier wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:03 pm
Mudflap wrote:
godlameroso wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:29 pm
Not to mention you'd run out of fuel.
Not necessarily - peak power is still 100 kg/h at higher TE.
That’s one that I was thinking about the other day... Maximum fuel usage is 100Kg/h... Maximum amount of fuel is 105Kg... The races last more than 1.7 hours... There shouldn’t be able to drive at maximum power during a race if they are on the throttle for more than 50% of the time.


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The fuel saving is there, but it's not as severe as it was before, partly due to the fuel allowance being 110kg this year IIRC. On some tracks you can underfuel, for example Austria, Barcelona, Hungary, on some tracks underfueling can be an advantage if you can compensate for it with pace from the chassis(like Melbourne or Canada). You run the engine only to stretch the lead.

I think during the race it's obvious that they do not run at full power, for both reliability and race pace sake. It's not just the power unit that can't take it, it's also the tires, as more power through the rears means more slip, and more wear.

However if we were to know the true average power used during the race it would still be very impressive. I would venture average power is ~880hp +- 40-50hp. 1,000hp is used at times, and even lower modes are used at times as well. For example if you use more pace early on the race for track position, you may have to run at a lower pace later on in the race, not all race but to satisfy the fuel target.

As with all things, fuel weight, it's influence on chassis performance, and the rate at which it is consumed by the power unit are all very tight knit variables which are affected by other things. It really shows how important the fluids used by the power unit are, and how much gains can be had by the actual design of the engine and it's ancillaries with regards to reducing pumping losses, or efficiency gains. Again increasing efficiency by reducing windage losses for instance can allow you to carry just that little bit less fuel onboard and gain you a tenth of chassis performance. Or repositioning the radiators improves COG because it lets you make a more streamlined water pump. Often there is a balancing act where adding weight somewhere can let you remove more somewhere else for a net loss of weight, or better COG.
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gruntguru » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:14 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:46 pm
I think during the race it's obvious that they do not run at full power, for both reliability and race pace sake.
Then there's this thing called "corners".
je suis charlie

gruntguru
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gruntguru » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:16 pm

SmallSoldier wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:03 pm
Mudflap wrote:
godlameroso wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:29 pm
Not to mention you'd run out of fuel.
Not necessarily - peak power is still 100 kg/h at higher TE.
That’s one that I was thinking about the other day... Maximum fuel usage is 100Kg/h... Maximum amount of fuel is 105Kg... The races last more than 1.7 hours... There shouldn’t be able to drive at maximum power during a race if they are on the throttle for more than 50% of the time.


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105 kg/1.7 hours = 61.7 kg/hr
and of course they don't use much fuel during braking, cornering, pit stops, yellow flag . . .
je suis charlie

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:51 am

The race is not full throttle guys. The cars have to slow to take the corners.
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