Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Pyrone89
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Pyrone89 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:01 pm

Anyone else questioning Renaults explaination of RIC dnf? A ‘broken’ exhaust. Yeah right. Is this new style PR-speak for what surely looked like a massive engine blow-up?

TimW
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by TimW » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:35 pm

gruntguru wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:30 pm
3 grams? Are you guys kidding? The fuel flow can momentarily spike to 100.003 kg/hr? Wow - that's worth a whole 0.03 hp.

If there is any truth in the 3 grams figure perhaps it is grams/second ie 10.8 kg/hr? Hmmm that seems a bit much - about 108 hp.

g/min? - that would be 1.8 hp.
I guess it is gram per second and the allowed deviation is 0.03 gram as initially stated above.

100kg/hour is 27.77 gram/s. 0.03 gram is 0.1%, which is a typical value for not-too-fancy sensor accuracy

Benii6
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Benii6 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:49 pm

Pyrone89 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:01 pm
Anyone else questioning Renaults explaination of RIC dnf? A ‘broken’ exhaust. Yeah right. Is this new style PR-speak for what surely looked like a massive engine blow-up?
you would notice that Ric was still accelerating after the smoke. I don't know about you, but I don't think blown-up engines can do that.
Last edited by turbof1 on Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Language

Pyrone89
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Pyrone89 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:04 pm

Benii6 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:49 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:01 pm
Anyone else questioning Renaults explaination of RIC dnf? A ‘broken’ exhaust. Yeah right. Is this new style PR-speak for what surely looked like a massive engine blow-up?
Oh for ---'s sake. All you delusional RB/Honda fans need to lose your insecurities. Everytime there's some news from Renault, y'all start accusing them of lying because it doesn't fit your narratives.

If you'd actually use your brain, you would notice that Ric was still accelerating after the smoke. I don't know about you, but I don't think blown-up engines can do that.
And a broken exhaust CAN produce that kind of smoke?

And ‘all of us RB/Honda fans’ now the truthfulness of Abiteboul/Renault, that is why it is being questioned.

subcritical71
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by subcritical71 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:09 pm

Pyrone89 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:01 pm
Anyone else questioning Renaults explaination of RIC dnf? A ‘broken’ exhaust. Yeah right. Is this new style PR-speak for what surely looked like a massive engine blow-up?
Are you looking for a root cause or simply an explanation for what you saw on TV? A broken exhaust can cause damage to a lot of parts. If one of those parts was a coolant line therefore subsequently causing a leak, that leak being directed towards the hot exhaust would give the same appearance. Therefore, I would think Renault’s answer was on the side of the root cause.

If it’s about Renault’s trustworthiness, I would think that doesn’t belong in the PU thread.

zack!
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by zack! » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:18 pm

I heard it is a flexible pipe of lubricant cooler that has been damaged, so a lubricant leakage toward end of car and exhaust that caused that heavy white and blue smoke. Effectvely the PU continued to work during the leakage, and then been shut down to protect ICE. I think ICE is safe and will be may be re-use for may be test (as it was probably the old spec 'A', i doubt it will be re-used in race).
In on board of Hulk, I heard renault pit explained to avoid some turn of the of circuit due to a lubricant leakage of daniel...

Benii6
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Benii6 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:19 pm

Pyrone89 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:04 pm
Benii6 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:49 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:01 pm
Anyone else questioning Renaults explaination of RIC dnf? A ‘broken’ exhaust. Yeah right. Is this new style PR-speak for what surely looked like a massive engine blow-up?
Oh for ---'s sake. All you delusional RB/Honda fans need to lose your insecurities. Everytime there's some news from Renault, y'all start accusing them of lying because it doesn't fit your narratives.

If you'd actually use your brain, you would notice that Ric was still accelerating after the smoke. I don't know about you, but I don't think blown-up engines can do that.
And a broken exhaust CAN produce that kind of smoke?

And ‘all of us RB/Honda fans’ now the truthfulness of Abiteboul/Renault, that is why it is being questioned.
It seems you didn't even read the article...There was also a hydraulic leak.

GhostF1
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by GhostF1 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:34 am

Benii6 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:19 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:04 pm
Benii6 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:49 pm


Oh for ---'s sake. All you delusional RB/Honda fans need to lose your insecurities. Everytime there's some news from Renault, y'all start accusing them of lying because it doesn't fit your narratives.

If you'd actually use your brain, you would notice that Ric was still accelerating after the smoke. I don't know about you, but I don't think blown-up engines can do that.
And a broken exhaust CAN produce that kind of smoke?

And ‘all of us RB/Honda fans’ now the truthfulness of Abiteboul/Renault, that is why it is being questioned.
It seems you didn't even read the article...There was also a hydraulic leak.
Good, so we've established that the "exhaust failure" also severed multiple crucial systems (hydraulic, lubrication etc) requiring it's shutdown before detonating and dropping more of its fluids on track (it was visible on camera). So yes, that is a PU failure..

I do think it's funny you imply anything other than positive comments must be from RB/Honda fans, and yet a quick perusal over most topics involving RB/Honda/Toro Rosso, it has been insecure Renault fans running around saying they are "obviously ahead of Honda" for whatever reason they feel the need to ratify that after every race.. Now I'm all for healthy competition, it can be great fun, but lets not pretend "Renault fans" aren't just as guilty.

Back to PU conversation, hard facts. Renault/McLaren have used more elements up to Hungary than RBR/STR. An important follow up to that, none of the Honda element changes have been due to failures on track, whereas a majority of the Renault changes have been and it seems the issues have been pretty random, not a consistent problem area. We've had Turbo, MGU-H, MGU-K, battery and physical ICE failures (ouch) so far.

Now, that is a pretty clear cut observation, if it sounds like a" RBR/Honda fan" comment to anyone, then maybe that says enough. It isn't. Those who do take it offensively or read it as a swipe are obviously not watching what is happening.

saviour stivala
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:52 am

Reliability wise (power unit elements used so far –before Hungary) there isn’t much to choose between Renault and Honda power units.
Renault used 1 ES and 2 CE more than Honda running a total of 4 cars.
Honda used 1 more H than Renault running a total of 4 cars.
Renault:- ICE 15. TC 14. H 13, K 11, ES 10. CE 11.
Honda:- ICE 15. TC 14. H 14. K 11. ES 9. CE 9.

saviour stivala
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:26 am

Renault confirms going to introduce C specification, their intended last upgrade for the season at SPA/MONZA on all 4 cars.

turbof1
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by turbof1 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:25 am

subcritical71 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:09 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:01 pm
Anyone else questioning Renaults explaination of RIC dnf? A ‘broken’ exhaust. Yeah right. Is this new style PR-speak for what surely looked like a massive engine blow-up?
Are you looking for a root cause or simply an explanation for what you saw on TV? A broken exhaust can cause damage to a lot of parts. If one of those parts was a coolant line therefore subsequently causing a leak, that leak being directed towards the hot exhaust would give the same appearance. Therefore, I would think Renault’s answer was on the side of the root cause.

If it’s about Renault’s trustworthiness, I would think that doesn’t belong in the PU thread.
This is about right. It is perfectly allowed to think critically and think about alternative explanations regarding damage. Just don't make this about Renault's PR or trustworthiness. It's strictly a hardware topic here. As somebody explained here, the exhaust could have been the catalyst that resulted into cascading issues with maybe or maybe not further damage than just the exhaust.

So instead of hitting eachother with your manbags, discuss what broke. Life can be so simple.

EDIT: regarding playing within the margins of the fuel sensor: you can do that, but do know no fuel sensor will be an exact copy of the one before. There will always be an offset, no matter how small it is, and therefore a chance you are playing too close to the margins. I'd say this is speculation at best and something we can't prove or disprove. Doesn't seem solid enough to discuss here.
#AeroFrodo

saviour stivala
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:11 pm

As to the arguments of what broke on Riccairdo’s Renault and triggered all that smoke we can only speculate, as to the cascading damage we will have or can have a hint when the power unit elements used report for the weekend will be out.

GhostF1
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by GhostF1 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:29 am

saviour stivala wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:52 am
Reliability wise (power unit elements used so far –before Hungary) there isn’t much to choose between Renault and Honda power units.
Renault used 1 ES and 2 CE more than Honda running a total of 4 cars.
Honda used 1 more H than Renault running a total of 4 cars.
Renault:- ICE 15. TC 14. H 13, K 11, ES 10. CE 11.
Honda:- ICE 15. TC 14. H 14. K 11. ES 9. CE 9.
This must be hard for people to follow or something...

Elements used tells less than half the story. Every Honda element change so far has not been due to an on track failure, whereas the same cannot be said for Renault, a majority of their changes have been due to failures. Again in Hungary only yesterday, Sainz suffered a failure in practice.

Honda introduced a second upgrade to Renault's single one and still have utilised less components... What does that say.

This is pure observation. You bring a Martian to Earth right now and make him look at the data of F1, it's pretty obvious what the conclusion would be.

scarnegie96
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by scarnegie96 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:35 pm

As Ghost said, just looking at the elements used gives nowhere near the full picture. So far, at the halfway point of the season, there has only been one failure between the 4 cars of RBR and TR that could be attributed to Honda, that being whatever actually happened to the electrical system on Albons car at Silverstone, which didn't even affect performance it just made it potentially dangerous to pit.

Across the 4 cars supplied by Renault they had more engine gremlims on the first race weekend with Hulkenbergs issue in quali and Sainz in the race, before both Renaults both died during the 2nd race weekend.

Renault might have higher peak power, but in terms of reliability they are the worst on the grid currently.

McMika98
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by McMika98 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:11 am

Renault have 1000hp in the bag in quali and now with the new spec they will be untouchable if Cryil is to be believed. Monza win must be the target.