Burning lean: Pre-chamber combustion tech

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
blueytoo
2
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:37 pm

Re: Burning lean: Pre-chamber combustion tech

Post by blueytoo » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:37 am

godlameroso wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:18 am
There's really only one way to do it with one injector and one spark plug, and the side injector is the big hint.
if such a thing exists, there must be a patent out there. the variable pattern injectors i can find are still symmetrical and omnidirectional.

seems a lot easier to put the injector on the boundary of the prechamber and main chamber.

blueytoo
2
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:37 pm

Re: Burning lean: Pre-chamber combustion tech

Post by blueytoo » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:11 pm

recent patent permits one injector in main chamber. prechamber ingests mixture in compression, assisted by richer mixture near prechamber apertures.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2017/0096932.html

johnny comelately
7
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:55 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Burning lean: Pre-chamber combustion tech

Post by johnny comelately » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:39 pm

Could posters say what they think the overall (if the chamber is not homogenised) lambda is for steady state and transition please:

godlameroso
335
User avatar
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Burning lean: Pre-chamber combustion tech

Post by godlameroso » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:47 pm

johnny comelately wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:39 pm
Could posters say what they think the overall (if the chamber is not homogenised) lambda is for steady state and transition please:
The only ones that know are the ones tuning the fuel tables.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

johnny comelately
7
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:55 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Burning lean: Pre-chamber combustion tech

Post by johnny comelately » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:34 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:47 pm
johnny comelately wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:39 pm
Could posters say what they think the overall (if the chamber is not homogenised) lambda is for steady state and transition please:
The only ones that know are the ones tuning the fuel tables.
OK yes, but what do you think it is?

Tommy Cookers
511
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: Burning lean: Pre-chamber combustion tech

Post by Tommy Cookers » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:04 am

1.5 - with conventional valve working and conventional VE

though VE restriction via unconventional IV period could give near 1 lambda with the apparent 4 bar absolute 'boost'

Muniix
14
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:29 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Burning lean: Pre-chamber combustion tech

Post by Muniix » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:28 am

johnny comelately wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:34 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:47 pm
johnny comelately wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:39 pm
Could posters say what they think the overall (if the chamber is not homogenised) lambda is for steady state and transition please:
The only ones that know are the ones tuning the fuel tables.
OK yes, but what do you think it is?
I'd guess 1.6 - 1.85. Maximum Thermal efficiency would be closer to 1.8, the high boost pressure above 3.5 bar in small 266cc cylinders and the bore to stroke ratio giving it high peak pressure to mean, high BSR reduces this.
The side mount injection would be chosen for turbulence enhancement possible for non premixed secondary injection after TDC.

godlameroso
335
User avatar
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Burning lean: Pre-chamber combustion tech

Post by godlameroso » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:11 pm

What about injector flow per pulse? Surely it's spraying more than once or twice per engine cycle. They must have had lots of issues with injector dribbling at first. Maintaining accurate spray and droplet size becomes challenging at the time scales involved, even with piezoelectric control. Particularly(pun intended)with a 500 bar pressure limit.

There's a lot of development just engineering better injectors, I'd say 30% of current power gains have come just from the injectors, and the fuel system in general. Ironic then that in cost conscious F1 this area is pretty much a bottomless money pit, add to the fact that this is not an area that incurs grid penalties so the manufacturers are free to upgrade this system throughout the season.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee