Standardized Fuel

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Standardized Fuel

Post by Zynerji » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:09 am

Like the control tyres, is it time to also control the fuel and lubricants in F1? I cannot think of a more dead-end investment than to improve the performance of fossil fuels (unless it come with emissions benefits). It seems like a huge area of performance differential comes from these third-party, outside contractors, and that any of the fuels that have been formulated since 2015 would still be fantastic as a spec fuel.

Thoughts?

dans79
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Location: USA

Re: Standardized Fuel

Post by dans79 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:31 am

I think things are perfectly fine as is.

Personally I don't understand why so many want to push F1 towards a spec series, nothing could be further from it roots and true DNA. F1 is basically ritualized industrial warfare and has been since the beginning, yet some want to turn it into the European equivalent of NASCAR.

Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Standardized Fuel

Post by Zynerji » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:01 am

dans79 wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:31 am
I think things are perfectly fine as is.

Personally I don't understand why so many want to push F1 towards a spec series, nothing could be further from it roots and true DNA. F1 is basically ritualized industrial warfare and has been since the beginning, yet some want to turn it into the European equivalent of NASCAR.
Well, who is competing in F1?
Drivers?
Designers?
Mechanics?
Principals?
Sponsors?
3rd party suppliers?
Secret technology sharing between dominant teams?
Special Vetos?

Like the tyres, fuel is a huge part of the equation, and part of the cost cap problem, as the Oil companies can LITERALLY invest billions outside of the structure, and show up on race day with a huge advantage.

Unless customer teams can get identical fuel to the works teams that supply their engines, there will always be an inherent advantage, and that isnt sporting in my opinion.

wuzak
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Re: Standardized Fuel

Post by wuzak » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:37 am

Zynerji wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:01 am
Unless customer teams can get identical fuel to the works teams that supply their engines, there will always be an inherent advantage, and that isnt sporting in my opinion.
I believe the customers do get the same fuels (except for Renault teams, who have chosen a different supplier to the works team, such as Red Bull).

dans79
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Location: USA

Re: Standardized Fuel

Post by dans79 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:37 am

Zynerji wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:01 am
Well, who is competing in F1?
All of these, hence the reason its not a spec series.
Zynerji wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:01 am
Drivers?
Designers?
Mechanics?
Principals?

Every time you start a topic like this it, seems like you think the only thing that should matter is the driver.

Just_a_fan
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Standardized Fuel

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:21 am

Zynerji wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:09 am


Thoughts?
You're just not happy that your favourite driver isn't in a Mercedes... :roll:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Standardized Fuel

Post by Zynerji » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:40 pm

I lived through Sebastian taking 4 in a row, and Merc taking 4 in a row.

Doesnt the "in-a-row" thing bother people? It is so predictable, that it isnt even worth watching.

And the single tyre supplier has done very well. If F1 ended the tyre war, why wouldn't we end the Fuel War?
Last edited by Zynerji on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: Standardized Fuel

Post by Jolle » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:09 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:40 pm
I lived through Sebastian taking 4 in a row, and Merc taking 4 in a row.

Doesnt the "in-a-row" thing bother people? It is so predictable, that it isnt even worth watching.
It's one of the main features of F1 true the decades. One team is leading, the others try to catch up. And that might take years. before RedBull there ws Ferrari for 5 years, years of Williams domination and don't forget almost a decade of McLaren.

As long as a few companies want to invest in something like oil and fuel, it's a win-win for the whole business. More exposure, more development, more sponsoring.

Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Standardized Fuel

Post by Zynerji » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:31 pm

Fuel war bad for same reasons tyre war was bad.

dans79
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Location: USA

Re: Standardized Fuel

Post by dans79 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:14 pm

Seriously Zynerji, I think you would be much happier as a fan of a different series. F1 has been like this since the very beginning, even before it was F1, look at how the original silver arrows obliterated their opponents in the 30's.

I'd add, I hated the early part of 2012 season when we had a tire lottery. I mean for the love of god Maldonado won a race.

Maritimer
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Location: Canada

Re: Standardized Fuel

Post by Maritimer » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:37 pm

Here's the saddest song on the smallest violin. If the next ruleset shifts toward more spec anything I know I'm certainly done watching, as are a huge chunk of the viewership/fanbase. This isn't Formula Budgetcap.
Zynerji wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:40 pm
... the single tyre supplier has done very well...
:lol:

Zynerji
61
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Standardized Fuel

Post by Zynerji » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:12 pm

Maritimer wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:37 pm
Here's the saddest song on the smallest violin. If the next ruleset shifts toward more spec anything I know I'm certainly done watching, as are a huge chunk of the viewership/fanbase. This isn't Formula Budgetcap.
Zynerji wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:40 pm
... the single tyre supplier has done very well...
:lol:
Please give an instance where the single supplier have one team an unfair advantage? It's not funny, its sad actually how broken F1 is sometimes.

dans79
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Location: USA

Re: Standardized Fuel

Post by dans79 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:34 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:12 pm
Please give an instance where the single supplier have one team an unfair advantage? It's not funny, its sad actually how broken F1 is sometimes.
How about mid 2013 when they swapped tire compounds, The championship drastically swung in RBRs favor after that.

Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Standardized Fuel

Post by Zynerji » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:50 pm

There is no data to suggest that that tire was developed specifically for Red Bull like the fuel they ran in the same race.

dans79
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Location: USA

Re: Standardized Fuel

Post by dans79 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:42 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:50 pm
There is no data to suggest that that tire was developed specifically for Red Bull like the fuel they ran in the same race.
That's not what you asked.

Horner had complained all season about the 2013 tires, mainly because they didn't suit the 2013 RBR. As soon as the failures started happening Horner lobbied hard to switch back to the 2012 tires that suited RBR much better.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/sports/c ... y/?related
"This is a Pirelli issue, they need to find a solution, they need to address it. Whether they go back to last year's tire or a different tire they need a solution," said Horner, who has called all season for the quick-wearing tires to be harder and longer-lasting.

"The most logical thing would be to go back to the tires that worked well for them previously. The tires they had last year did not have these failures," he added.
when they switched back to 2012 spec compounds RBR gained a huge advantage and anyone paying attention knew it was going to happen.

Look at the winners from the first 10 races of the season. Kimi (lotus), Seb x 4 (RBR), Alonso x 2 (Ferrari), Rosberg x 2 (Mercedes), Lewis (Mercedes).

Now look at the last 9 races. Seb won all of them.



As others have stated, this is a formula series not a spec series. That means its not all about the driver, and that's something you need to learn how to be ok with.