Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
Vanja #66
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Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

Post by Vanja #66 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:17 am

There are many other threads for discussion about F1 aero, however this one will be tied to a series of articles we are working on at the moment for f1technical.net.

The latest article in the series was published:

01: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - Introduction
02: Formula 1 Aerodynamics – Basics of Aerodynamics and Fluid Mechanics, part I
03: Formula 1 Aerodynamics – Basics of Aerodynamics and Fluid Mechanics, part II

This thread is for general Aero discussion and for discussion about these articles. Feel free to give your own opinion, to mention what was left out and should be mentioned, what is too much info for regular reader etc. :)

And above all else - please enjoy!
Last edited by Vanja #66 on Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:21 am, edited 3 times in total.

turbof1
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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

Post by turbof1 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:23 am

Stickied

variante
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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

Post by variante » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:37 am

Nice to see such good articles coming! But I have something to say about this point:
Vanja #66 wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:17 am
...what is too much info for regular reader,...
I feel like there are tons of articles for the "regular reader" on the net, and I would love to see -especially on a website like this- articles teaching things that go beyond the knowledge of a 12yo F1 fan.

Yes, there are many papers discussing very specific topics, and many threads on this forum with huge and interesting discussions. But what is missing are articles that effectively synthesize complex (and too specific) papers and absurdly long and chaotic discussions, and offer answers to common questions about F1 cars.

For example: a few years ago, when I didn't know much about aerodynamics and I didn't have the tools (CFD) to study it by myself, I was desperately searching for articles with good CFD images and actual explanations about the working principles of certain aero devices and shapes that I used to see on racing cars.
I had to go through many useless articles all over the internet before getting anything actually informative. That's how I got to know F1 Technical, with some awesome threads! But still, it was not enough.
Today, that "market gap" remains pretty much unfilled.

Now I have pretty much all the tools and the knowledge, finally. But I feel like the younger me(s) that are now browsing the web hungry for some infos, are still struggling.

One last consideration: as a Formula SAE "veteran", I had to witness an unbelievable ignorance of most of my colleagues from all over the world about racecar related notions. Most of them were surely good students and smart guys, but had no clue on how to make a racecar aerodynamics work (decently).
This is a clear sign that appropriate informations do not reach the end user, probably because of the scarcity I was talking about.

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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

Post by turbof1 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:01 am

Hello Variante,

The article written by Vanja serves as an an introductory article. There's more to come that goes deeper. He's actually writing these articles from the same viewpoint as you, wishing there was certain information that is crucial for people aspiring to go into academic/professional fluid dynamics.

The second article will be a lot more challenging! It'll be out very soon, perhaps even today.

Just my 2 cents :D

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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

Post by Vanja #66 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:15 pm

variante wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:37 am
Nice to see such good articles coming! But I have something to say about this point:
Vanja #66 wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:17 am
...what is too much info for regular reader,...
I feel like there are tons of articles for the "regular reader" on the net, and I would love to see -especially on a website like this- articles teaching things that go beyond the knowledge of a 12yo F1 fan.

Yes, there are many papers discussing very specific topics, and many threads on this forum with huge and interesting discussions. But what is missing are articles that effectively synthesize complex (and too specific) papers and absurdly long and chaotic discussions, and offer answers to common questions about F1 cars.

For example: a few years ago, when I didn't know much about aerodynamics and I didn't have the tools (CFD) to study it by myself, I was desperately searching for articles with good CFD images and actual explanations about the working principles of certain aero devices and shapes that I used to see on racing cars.
I had to go through many useless articles all over the internet before getting anything actually informative. That's how I got to know F1 Technical, with some awesome threads! But still, it was not enough.
Today, that "market gap" remains pretty much unfilled.

Now I have pretty much all the tools and the knowledge, finally. But I feel like the younger me(s) that are now browsing the web hungry for some infos, are still struggling.

One last consideration: as a Formula SAE "veteran", I had to witness an unbelievable ignorance of most of my colleagues from all over the world about racecar related notions. Most of them were surely good students and smart guys, but had no clue on how to make a racecar aerodynamics work (decently).
This is a clear sign that appropriate informations do not reach the end user, probably because of the scarcity I was talking about.
variante, thanks for your feedback. :)

I'll take the liberty of asking you about your Formula Student history - which team and which seasons? :D You can find my history on my LinkedIn account. We may have met in Varano in 2016.

As Andy said, we are working on far more in-depth articles than your usual F1 aero articles, or science papers. At the moment, we are looking at over 10 more articles (so over 12 in total) about F1 aero. That is a lot of information, coming from (my) personal experience and knowledge and from whatever more we can find out while writing them. If we could do it as fast as I would like, we'd write 5 times more, to literally fuse together everything we can learn until the "publish" button is hit. :) However, that would be too much and it would be senseless.

What I wanted to do with these articles (other than what Andy wrote), and Steven has kindly let me in this team to do it, was to share this knowledge for as wide audience as possible, so I wouldn't have to read nonsense like "radiator intake is low pressure zone" on forums like this :) But I hope you understand that motorsport is a high-profit industry (especially F1) and that industry knowledge is not for free. So whenever I get a chance to learn or read something new, I use it.

I don't know if you tried applying for a position in any F1 or motorsport team, but I can tell you I understood only when I started looking at job ads why there are not so many top-class Formula Student teams in UK. F1 teams offer internships a lot and their best students get them. There are several motorsport Universities and high-education institutions in UK and even there you can't learn fully about F1 aero. The only way to do it for good, as far as I found out - is in an F1 team or from an F1 experts. And there aren't many of them like Willem Toet or Enrique Scalabroni, who freely and openly talk about it and are willing to share their knowledge with others. Hell, if I was a motorsport employee, I'm not sure I'd write these articles - when you are good at something, don't do it for free! :)

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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

Post by variante » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:39 pm

It's good to hear that! I'll wait for those articles, then ;)

Vanja #66 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:15 pm
Hell, if I was a motorsport employee, I'm not sure I'd write these articles - when you are good at something, don't do it for free! :)
Probably! But, please, let me dream of a world where knowledge is actually open source :D One day, one day...

And some off topic:
Vanja #66 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:15 pm
I'll take the liberty of asking you about your Formula Student history - which team and which seasons? :D You can find my history on my LinkedIn account. We may have met in Varano in 2016.
Team Dynamis PRC from Milan. I've been involved until last year, when we achieved pretty much anything we had dreamt of. Now I'm still formally in the team, but my priority is to pass some exams and get out of uni.
I was there in 2016! And I've been following Drumska Strela for quite a bit! ...for sure one of the most beautiful cars. I think I have a video somewhere of it testing in Varano ;)

Vanja #66 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:15 pm
I don't know if you tried applying for a position in any F1 or motorsport team, but I can tell you I understood only when I started looking at job ads why there are not so many top-class Formula Student teams in UK. F1 teams offer internships a lot and their best students get them.
Doesn't work like that here in Italy. Ferrari F1 team has hired a lot of my teammates, but only after getting out of university (or for last year's thesis). So my italian fellows don't have that excus...I mean...opportunity.

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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

Post by Vanja #66 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:58 pm

variante wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:39 pm
Team Dynamis PRC from Milan. I've been involved until last year, when we achieved pretty much anything we had dreamt of. Now I'm still formally in the team, but my priority is to pass some exams and get out of uni.
I was there in 2016! And I've been following Drumska Strela for quite a bit! ...for sure one of the most beautiful cars. I think I have a video somewhere of it testing in Varano ;)
Grazie, amico! :D I had a feeling you were from Dynamis :) I was talking to one of your aero guys there, I think it was morning of third day, in the line for noise test.

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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

Post by Vanja #66 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:22 am

The latest article is now published, where we discuss some essential terms from fluid dynamics to help better understand F1 aerodynamics:

02: Formula 1 Aerodynamics – Basics of Aerodynamics and Fluid Mechanics, part I

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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

Post by Vanja #66 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:10 pm

The lastest article has been published this evening, please enjoy and feel free to ask for clarification if needed :)

03: Formula 1 Aerodynamics – Basics of Aerodynamics and Fluid Mechanics, part II

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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:02 pm

At the end of the article you have a picture of the RedBull and mention slots. It looks like you're referring to the legality cuts in the horizontal devices - I'm sure you're referring to slots in the devices below and in the edge of the bargeboard. Might be worth clarifying the very thin slots/cuts are for legality purposes only.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools."

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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

Post by Vanja #66 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:12 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:02 pm
At the end of the article you have a picture of the RedBull and mention slots. It looks like you're referring to the legality cuts in the horizontal devices - I'm sure you're referring to slots in the devices below and in the edge of the bargeboard. Might be worth clarifying the very thin slots/cuts are for legality purposes only.
That was indeed the idea of this picture, to spark a topic that regular reader would like to ask a question about. :) Clarification will be added in some time, though those who read Pt I will understand this part even without it. :)

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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

Post by turbof1 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:34 am

Yeah, the infinity wings are a different rule set. Let us not discuss that here. I'll split up the topic. New topic can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27687