2021 Aero Thread

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JordanMugen
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2021 Aero Thread

Post by JordanMugen » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:17 am

I apologise if there is an existing thread, I tried searching but couldn't find it.

I note that FIA/FOM/Technical working group have released their proposal for 2021 F1 Aero regulations. Curiously, their proposal basically involves Champcar/Indycar-ising F1 cars -- a notion I approve fully of. =D> :D

This is apparently the ninth iteration of the concept, and is meant to reduce downforce loss when following another car from 70% loss to just 20% loss in the same situation.
  • Reduction in front tyre width to 270mm (rear remains 405mm) with 710mm outer diameter 18" tyres [already confirmed]
  • Maximum(or mandatory?) wheelbase of 3400mm (down from 3600 to 3650mm of 2019 cars)
  • Front wing rule builds upon the 2019 rule to have a three-element front wing connected directly to nose (i.e., no Y250 vortex), with 50-100mm lesser overall width than 2019, end plates appear to remain similar
  • Apparent removal of "stub" nose loophole
  • Fins over front wheels to manage front wheel wake
  • Flat floor rule is generally abandoned, with no more tea tray etc
  • Champcar style underbody inlet with vortex generator strakes. Prescribed tunnel inlet area. The current unrestricted bodywork areas around the bargeboards are presumably eliminated.
  • Greater diffuser angle than 2019 F1 cars with the diffuser starting further up the car and ahead of the ahead of the rear axle, similar to older CART cars or the Swift Formula Nippon car
  • Rear wing blends into endplates with no more separate vertical pieces
  • +50kg on minimum weight due to various (heavy) standard parts
"here is a look at the model the teams are actually working on - code named 'INDIA', ground effect, basic wings, wheel covers, no bargeboards... "
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https://twitter.com/NorthHertsSam/statu ... 0097685504

Versions with livery [from AMUS article: https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... nterboden/]
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IMO hopefully the approved regulations are close to these concepts :D and not the usual F1 watered down compromise... :roll:

Blackout
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by Blackout » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:43 am

Sorry didn't see this thread :P
viewtopic.php?p=824353#p824353

Blackout
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by Blackout » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:15 pm

The rear is interesting too; the beam wing is back and it seems they centered the diffuser outlets a bit, freed up some space between it and the rear wheels and put bigger winglets there --> in order to enhance upwash and dirty air extraction probably
Why the raised FW?
I get the outwashy VGs under the floor but why do they keep that outwashy BB-like shape outside the floor? (unlike these old Lola concepts which had similar floor entries for example)
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Last edited by Blackout on Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by JordanMugen » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:25 pm

Blackout wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:15 pm
I get the outwashy VGs under the floor why do they keep that outwashy BB-like shape outside the floor? (unlike these old Lola concepts which had similar floor entries for example)
Your post in the other thread is really great! =D> =D>

I think I see what you mean.

I think the design is different on the F1 car (splitting the air in the middle -- in traditional tea tray fashion but without the tray -- and directing the inner channel to the floor, and the other channels for outwash mainly), whereas the Lola has a low nose and isn't doing that... The F1 "floor inlet" goes all the way to the middle of the car, whereas the Lola's only go to the sides of the nose.

AFAIK you don't need to send that much volume of air under the floor (as else it will stall), rather it's the quality (lack of turbulence?) of the air that goes under the floor that is important. I guess the vortices generated by the outer channels are already strong enough, so there is no need for the overall inlet to be any larger?

Image

jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by jjn9128 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:54 pm

The +50kg concerns me... there's no real reason for standard parts to weigh more unless they're aiming for increased durability. For reference the gearbox tender says +1.5kg for the cassette over current designs, but as most teams already get their gears from Xtrac anyway, why should that be the case???
#aerogandalf

Holm86
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by Holm86 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:56 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:54 pm
The +50kg concerns me... there's no real reason for standard parts to weigh more unless they're aiming for increased durability. For reference the gearbox tender says +1.5kg for the cassette over current designs, but as most teams already get their gears from Xtrac anyway, why should that be the case???
Concerns me too, these cars are way too heavy already.
Guessing they're looking into a standard ERS pack???

jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by jjn9128 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:58 pm

I think a standard ERS-H was discussed in the past. But also a standard hydraulic/electric kit for active suspension. Plus the gears.
#aerogandalf

JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by JordanMugen » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:03 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:54 pm
The +50kg concerns me...
A poster elsewhere suggested a minimum monocoque weight. I think that is an excellent idea to reduce the cost and complexity of manufacturing monocoques. Teams go to extreme lengths to make lightweight monocoques.

A basic, overengineered heavy monocoque like an Indycar may be a better solution for F1. The Indycar monocoques are both cheap and sturdy, which is great thinking.

jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by jjn9128 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:23 pm

JordanMugen wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:03 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:54 pm
The +50kg concerns me...
A poster elsewhere suggested a minimum monocoque weight. I think that is an excellent idea to reduce the cost and complexity of manufacturing monocoques. Teams go to extreme lengths to make lightweight monocoques.

A basic, overengineered heavy monocoque like an Indycar may be a better solution for F1. The Indycar monocoques are both cheap and sturdy, which is great thinking.
An F1 monocoque will be around 65-70kg which is ~11kg lighter than the Indycar tub (81kg) - so we're 1/4 of the way there (+12.5kg) with the spec gear cassette :lol: . A minimum tub weight won't help anything IMO as the big teams will spend the money getting that mass as low down as possible (which as there's a minimum weight is where the real lap-time advantage is anyway). A spec tub is a huuuuuuge no-no for me. So I'm not sure who that benefits.

Bulk manufacture helps a lot when it comes to costs - Indycar have used the same basic tub since 2012, so 9 years times however many tubs have been manufactured, I'd guess <20 a year (average), whereas F1 teams design a new tub every year (even if they claim they don't when it comes to new rule discussions with the FIA) and will manufacture 4/5 in a year.

Maybe some items will be homologated for multiple seasons rather than 1? e.g. the tub has a 3 year homologation. Would reduce some cost on design, tooling and manufacture!

EDIT: 18" rims will add mass as well, maybe not at the front as the width is being reduced but it could be +5-10kg all round.
#aerogandalf

Maplesoup
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by Maplesoup » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:12 pm

Suspension changes to deal with the 18 inch rims will probably add quite a bit of weight.

Personally I think they should give a spending cap and open up the regulations but before any specific concept can be used on a car it should be ok'd by the FIA and made public before it's introduction. The FIA could then choose too reject certain concepts if they don't feel that they fit in with the spirit of F1 or open wheel racing.

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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by hollus » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:41 pm

Does the space behind the driver look bigger? The airbox starts quite a way back and connect to the rest of the body even further back...
Larger fuel tanks? That would explain part of the weight as well.
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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by jjn9128 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:11 am

hollus wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:41 pm
Does the space behind the driver look bigger? The airbox starts quite a way back and connect to the rest of the body even further back...
Larger fuel tanks? That would explain part of the weight as well.
I don't think the back end of the car is any longer - especially as there's a supposed wheelbase limit reducing the length by some 300mm. I assume the +50kg is dry weight.
#aerogandalf

KiLLu12258
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by KiLLu12258 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:31 am

concept looks boring to me, no barge boards and so on.. nothin we have to talk about anymore. Hopefully there is still enough place for the teams to be creative, otherwise it will be no F1 for me. :(

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by Just_a_fan » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:39 pm

Looks like F1 is going to be merging with Indy sometime around 2025. Basically a spec series with little for the teams to do other than turn up and polish the paintwork.
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santos
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by santos » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:05 pm

The rear wing looks to be fixed. I don't see how can they adjust the flaps to have more or less downforce.