2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Gillian
Gillian
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:13 am
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:23 pm
I'm so fed up with Mercedes this year!

-Lewis has been making so many mistakes, one after another, so many bad starts! For some reason he can't overtake...Verstapen today passed so many cars (one of them being a Mercedes) yet Lewis couldn't even attack Ricciardo! Same goes for Monza...
-Bottas is such an idiot! He let Verstapen by so easily...Gasly was harder for Verstapen to pass! Bottas did the same thing at Zandvoort yet when Lewis tried to pass him at Barcelona he made it difficult for him! Can't really understand what's his point...

I've been a Hamilton-Mercedes fan since 2007 but doing so many mistakes at tracks that were going to be "easy wins" is such an embarrassment! Had Hamilton maximized his chances he would have been over 15 points ahead right now...! Max got so lucky today with the rain and he basically cancelled out his 4th engine penalty! Now he has a new engine and Hamilton doesn't!

I don't see how Hamilton can win this! The tracks that follow are all Red Bull tracks! But looking at the year until now he doesn't even deserve this championship anymore...! Max has been so consistent always finishing 1st or 2nd and their cars are so closely matched! The first 4 races were great for Mercedes and Lewis but then...

Ready to start hearing "Lewis can't win without the best car" etc. from all the Verstapen fans!
I do not know what race you were watching but Max was the one who could not overtake similarly paced cars. The Bottas overtake was basically a wave by, but Max looked hopeless behind the ferarris and the Mclaren, even the Alpine. He was destined to be 7th? if it were not for the rain.
Lewis overtook at critical points to put himself in contention for the win. Winning was the best who could have done and that's what he did. It was clear from the pace that this track was a strong track for Redbull too. Perez was so close to Hamilton, you could imagine how close Max would have been.

Hamilton actually had the best race out of everyone. Very well balanced risk management and good pace when in clean air and was able to hold the car on the road with slicks on when the rain was falling; which put a lot of pressure on Norris. He made no mistakes today, even lap 1 he narrowly escaped a stroll dive bomb.

Despite max finishing top 2 most of the times, he is behind in the championship and that bodes well for Hamilton. It shows that there is an intangible factor about Max that is putting him in situations to dump a mass of points. We almost saw again in Russia where almost dived up the inside of Leclerc which could have ended his race.
If LH100 is making so many mistakes and leading and both having an equal distribution of luck, what does that say if Mercedes do get it together for the remaining races?
It's anyone's championship still. Redbull have the best car, but I don't think they have the most complete driver to deliver their first championship in a long time.
You are kidding right? Leclerc almost crashes Verstappen out of the race and is Verstappen who saves them both. You can't seriously fault Verstappen for anything there?

And talk about dumping points... This is one of Hamiltons worst seasons that I can remember. I'm not even going to point out the obvious mistakes he has made this season.

I know some "Verstappen fans" are downplaying Hamilton for no reason but why do you feel the need to do the same? You can argue about who is/was the better driver over a career but Verstappen has done a better job this season.

basti313
basti313
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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wickedz50 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:23 am
Brilliant drive from Lewis under pressure. Spot on strategy from the team.
:?: :?: :?:
Max/RedBull saved the win for Ham. Without covering the stop of Max a lap before, Ham would have stayed out like Lando. This was clearly said in the interviews, it was more relevant to cover Max than secure the win.
If they would have just looked on their own pace and race win, they would have bottled it again.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:07 pm
I assume the rules have something about drivers switching cars in a team?


I mean, when Russell stood in for Hamilton, last year, Russell took Hamiltons Power Unit. So the Power Unit isn't tied to a driver, it's tied to a car. Is there a rule saying Hamilton can't take Bottas car now? I'm sure it can't be done, but is there actually a rule stating it?
It's not really tied to a car either; Lewis and Valtteri exchange chassis all the time. I think it is tied a driver position. Driver position number 1 and Driver position number 2. The reserve driver can slot into any of the positions of the main drivers. I would question when does a reserve driver, in a given season seize from being a reserve? When one of the permanent drivers is totally out for the rest of the season maybe.
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AMG.Tzan
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:13 am
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:23 pm
I'm so fed up with Mercedes this year!

-Lewis has been making so many mistakes, one after another, so many bad starts! For some reason he can't overtake...Verstapen today passed so many cars (one of them being a Mercedes) yet Lewis couldn't even attack Ricciardo! Same goes for Monza...
-Bottas is such an idiot! He let Verstapen by so easily...Gasly was harder for Verstapen to pass! Bottas did the same thing at Zandvoort yet when Lewis tried to pass him at Barcelona he made it difficult for him! Can't really understand what's his point...

I've been a Hamilton-Mercedes fan since 2007 but doing so many mistakes at tracks that were going to be "easy wins" is such an embarrassment! Had Hamilton maximized his chances he would have been over 15 points ahead right now...! Max got so lucky today with the rain and he basically cancelled out his 4th engine penalty! Now he has a new engine and Hamilton doesn't!

I don't see how Hamilton can win this! The tracks that follow are all Red Bull tracks! But looking at the year until now he doesn't even deserve this championship anymore...! Max has been so consistent always finishing 1st or 2nd and their cars are so closely matched! The first 4 races were great for Mercedes and Lewis but then...

Ready to start hearing "Lewis can't win without the best car" etc. from all the Verstapen fans!
I do not know what race you were watching but Max was the one who could not overtake similarly paced cars. The Bottas overtake was basically a wave by, but Max looked hopeless behind the ferarris and the Mclaren, even the Alpine. He was destined to be 7th? if it were not for the rain.
Lewis overtook at critical points to put himself in contention for the win. Winning was the best who could have done and that's what he did. It was clear from the pace that this track was a strong track for Redbull too. Perez was so close to Hamilton, you could imagine how close Max would have been.

Hamilton actually had the best race out of everyone. Very well balanced risk management and good pace when in clean air and was able to hold the car on the road with slicks on when the rain was falling; which put a lot of pressure on Norris. He made no mistakes today, even lap 1 he narrowly escaped a stroll dive bomb.

Despite max finishing top 2 most of the times, he is behind in the championship and that bodes well for Hamilton. It shows that there is an intangible factor about Max that is putting him in situations to dump a mass of points. We almost saw again in Russia where almost dived up the inside of Leclerc which could have ended his race.
If LH100 is making so many mistakes and leading and both having an equal distribution of luck, what does that say if Mercedes do get it together for the remaining races?
It's anyone's championship still. Redbull have the best car, but I don't think they have the most complete driver to deliver their first championship in a long time.
Well you're right but I don't know...I feel like sometimes it's taking him too long to get past someone just like Monza! I don't think he would have past Norris had it not rained at the end! And the same goes for Monza...

Yeah he isn't taking many risks with the experience he has now! But the starts have been awful the last 2 races and Monza cost him a lot of points...he shouldn't have been anywhere near Verstapen in the first place!

Anyway, I feel that this year both Mercedes and Lewis have made more mistakes than recent years! We are racing against Red Bull which are much harder to beat than Ferrari was in 2017-2018!

p.s. I don't understand what Bottas is trying to prove...Russell would have made the job much harder for Verstapen I think!
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

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SiLo
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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basti313 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:48 am
wickedz50 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:23 am
Brilliant drive from Lewis under pressure. Spot on strategy from the team.
:?: :?: :?:
Max/RedBull saved the win for Ham. Without covering the stop of Max a lap before, Ham would have stayed out like Lando. This was clearly said in the interviews, it was more relevant to cover Max than secure the win.
If they would have just looked on their own pace and race win, they would have bottled it again.
Considering the only thing they spoke about was the rain getting heavier and giving him updates on spinners, they never mentioned Max at all. Not sure how you've made this about Max.

Edit : I clearly missed the Toto interview afterwards so this is wrong.
Last edited by SiLo on Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Felipe Baby!

Gillian
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:47 pm
basti313 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:48 am
wickedz50 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:23 am
Brilliant drive from Lewis under pressure. Spot on strategy from the team.
:?: :?: :?:
Max/RedBull saved the win for Ham. Without covering the stop of Max a lap before, Ham would have stayed out like Lando. This was clearly said in the interviews, it was more relevant to cover Max than secure the win.
If they would have just looked on their own pace and race win, they would have bottled it again.
Considering the only thing they spoke about was the rain getting heavier and giving him updates on spinners, they never mentioned Max at all. Not sure how you've made this about Max.
I have no opinion on the matter but apparently Toto did state something along those lines:
Toto Wolff admits that the decision to call in Lewis Hamilton for Intermediate tyres during the Russian Grand Prix was made easier by observing what title rival Max Verstappen was doing.

The seven-time World Champion had been in second place behind leader Lando Norris when the rain started to fall into the final laps.

After some of the cars behind them – including Verstappen – started to come into the pits, Mercedes opted to pit Hamilton too. Meanwhile, Norris stayed out on slicks but struggled, resulting in Hamilton overtaking him for the lead. Norris eventually finished in seventh.

Whilst the fact that Norris initially chose to stay out could have potentially made the Silver Arrows question their strategy call, Wolff says that their focus on the championship battle with Verstappen made them feel more confident about the decision.

"It is [nerve-wracking when the driver you're racing stays out], but of course we are racing Verstappen," Wolff told Sky Sports.

"He went for the Inters as well, and you want to protect the position against him, so it maybe made our call a little bit easier.

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Phil
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Mercedes sure are making it hard for themselves, but it's difficult to pin point when and how. While being fortunate this year, they have also been unlucky. What lost Norris the win in Socchi, was the same reason they lost pole on Saturday. As the favorite and the one with the strongest pace, they needed to get out there in Q3 and set a banker on intermediates. The error on their part, was to stick it out for a second lap on inters, instead of coming in and going to slicks, which may have given them two laps which was absolutely required to get the heat into the tires.

In the end, it probably was the best thing that could have happened, as starting from pole, he probably would have been swallowed up on the opening straight.

On one hand, I'm extremely happy Lewis finally got his 100th win - what an achievement. On the other hand, not having the rain in the last few laps would have net gained him more points in the championship vs. Max than the 1st/2nd that happened.

This year is really going to be a thriller and I really hope that Mercedes/Hamilton as a team can improve to make less mistakes and make it a tighter fight, even on the tracks where they are not considered to be favorites.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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basti313
basti313
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:47 pm
basti313 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:48 am
wickedz50 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:23 am
Brilliant drive from Lewis under pressure. Spot on strategy from the team.
:?: :?: :?:
Max/RedBull saved the win for Ham. Without covering the stop of Max a lap before, Ham would have stayed out like Lando. This was clearly said in the interviews, it was more relevant to cover Max than secure the win.
If they would have just looked on their own pace and race win, they would have bottled it again.
Considering the only thing they spoke about was the rain getting heavier and giving him updates on spinners, they never mentioned Max at all. Not sure how you've made this about Max.
Shovlin clearly said they convinced Lewis like this in the post race interview and if you just look for the team radios on youtube you will hear it yourself.

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Looking ahead, how many of the races that are left were driven with both championships already in the bag in the past seasons? How many of those races, Merc and Lewis didn't win?

I'm just thinking of the rumours of some of the circuits less suited to the Merc than the competitors.

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SiLo
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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WaikeCU wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:49 pm
Looking ahead, how many of the races that are left were driven with both championships already in the bag in the past seasons? How many of those races, Merc and Lewis didn't win?

I'm just thinking of the rumours of some of the circuits less suited to the Merc than the competitors.
hard to say really, Merc were fastest in Hungary, Spa in the dry, Monza, Sochi... Zandvoort they were a tad behind. Their real problem is that Hungary was wet and they made the wrong call on the tyres. Spa was wet, Monza saw Lewis with a shite start and probably, not an optimal use of Bottas in qualifying.

They should really be further ahead in the championship than they are (Likewise for Red Bull with the crashes/being punted).

I think they have found more speed from the car and its going to be incredible close at every single race. I could see them going well in Turkey, might be the best place for an engine penalty for Lewis tbh if they really do need to take one.
Felipe Baby!

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Juzh
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:25 pm
WaikeCU wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:49 pm
Looking ahead, how many of the races that are left were driven with both championships already in the bag in the past seasons? How many of those races, Merc and Lewis didn't win?

I'm just thinking of the rumours of some of the circuits less suited to the Merc than the competitors.
hard to say really, Merc were fastest in Hungary, Spa in the dry, Monza, Sochi... Zandvoort they were a tad behind. Their real problem is that Hungary was wet and they made the wrong call on the tyres. Spa was wet, Monza saw Lewis with a shite start and probably, not an optimal use of Bottas in qualifying.

They should really be further ahead in the championship than they are (Likewise for Red Bull with the crashes/being punted).

I think they have found more speed from the car and its going to be incredible close at every single race. I could see them going well in Turkey, might be the best place for an engine penalty for Lewis tbh if they really do need to take one.
it's so easy to overtake with DRS in turkey I fully expect them to take the hit if they really have to and start from the back. I remember last year when it dried out enough and DRS was enabled everyone who had just a bit better pace as the car ahead flew by like it was nothing. Impossible to defend.

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SiLo
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:10 pm
SiLo wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:25 pm
WaikeCU wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:49 pm
Looking ahead, how many of the races that are left were driven with both championships already in the bag in the past seasons? How many of those races, Merc and Lewis didn't win?

I'm just thinking of the rumours of some of the circuits less suited to the Merc than the competitors.
hard to say really, Merc were fastest in Hungary, Spa in the dry, Monza, Sochi... Zandvoort they were a tad behind. Their real problem is that Hungary was wet and they made the wrong call on the tyres. Spa was wet, Monza saw Lewis with a shite start and probably, not an optimal use of Bottas in qualifying.

They should really be further ahead in the championship than they are (Likewise for Red Bull with the crashes/being punted).

I think they have found more speed from the car and its going to be incredible close at every single race. I could see them going well in Turkey, might be the best place for an engine penalty for Lewis tbh if they really do need to take one.
it's so easy to overtake with DRS in turkey I fully expect them to take the hit if they really have to and start from the back. I remember last year when it dried out enough and DRS was enabled everyone who had just a bit better pace as the car ahead flew by like it was nothing. Impossible to defend.
it's just an excellent track that actually allowed overtaking.
Felipe Baby!

Marty_Y
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Would Mexico be a good place to take the engine, historically Mexico hasn't been a strong track for Mercedes so if they take the hit there it's not like they will miss out on a win because they were unlikely to win anyway.

Or is it more sensible to do it on a track with better chances to overtake, Turkey and USA are on the calendar before Mexico.

Maybe if the situation is not critical they'll try to hang on until a opportunity presents itself like Lewis having a bad qualification or predicted bad weather.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:33 pm
Would Mexico be a good place to take the engine, historically Mexico hasn't been a strong track for Mercedes so if they take the hit there it's not like they will miss out on a win because they were unlikely to win anyway.

Or is it more sensible to do it on a track with better chances to overtake, Turkey and USA are on the calendar before Mexico.

Maybe if the situation is not critical they'll try to hang on until a opportunity presents itself like Lewis having a bad qualification or predicted bad weather.
You also have to factor in that Brazil and Mexico still may be scrubbed from the calendar due to covid. The situation isn't great in Texas either at the moment, although I am sure Liberty will pull whatever strings they can to have that race go ahead, but it's a bit of a mystery as to how many races will actually remain on the calendar. I feel like Turkey is now definitely going ahead, and Saudi/Abu Dhabi will, but who knows about the rest? I think there's still one TBC slot as well on 21/11, although I could be mistaken about that. Would be very surprised if it's not in the Middle East, but do they want a load of people coming straight from Brazil with no quarantine?

Anyway, point being that I think it's a really complex decision for them to make, and the last thing they want to do it commit to it in Turkey, unless it's necessary, to then find out there are only 3 races remaining which maybe they could have done with the engines they have. I would HATE to be the person in charge of making that decision. I think they will just have to be prepared to do it at short notice on any given weekend depending on how qualifying evolves.

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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:04 pm
Anyway, point being that I think it's a really complex decision for them to make, and the last thing they want to do it commit to it in Turkey, unless it's necessary, to then find out there are only 3 races remaining which maybe they could have done with the engines they have. I would HATE to be the person in charge of making that decision. I think they will just have to be prepared to do it at short notice on any given weekend depending on how qualifying evolves.
Honestly, I think Bottas's 5th was purely to try and hamper Max, and to allow Bottas's to push harder in the remaining races!
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