2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[ringo]

yep the cars havent been able to stretch their legs since Zandvoort and even then that track was frustrating.

I do wonder though if Perez will upgrade to perez 2.0 for mexico? He knows he has the car to win there. Will he try and go against the team and take that win?

[ringo]

RB need/needed a season as short as the last to hope for the championship. Right now it looks bleak I'm afraid, Mercedes are annihilating Red Bull on the straights, Qatar and Abu Dhabi will be bloody among the rest. Also Perez is not dependable at all and I believe if Verstappen had a fast, consistent rear gunner he'd still have a good cushion in the drivers championship. Max has to win both Mexico and Brazil and have Perez come second, then also hope for some Mercedes screw up somewhere else to have a shot at the championship, IMO

It is still Max's championship to lose. Do not let today fool you. Max still has a car that will be plus or minus 2 tenths everywhere which is okay. His team is also the best strategically. It can work out. Mercedes is like a fumbling juggler when it comes to predicting when theyre going to drop the ball.

[etusch]

Mercedes didn't think optimistic like many people here. If they thought like them they would change whole pu elements and would start from back of grid.
They trade off between being full fresh and grid position. Now they have reliability risk. Or may be they will take their penalty for remained elements at another track. We will see what they will do. A change or try to see if they will withstand along with new ice..

[godlameroso]

Steering wheel down must have been a caster change on the left side.

After the race, Max suspect it was just the weird tire wear afterall.

That could certainly be possible, caster is the angle between the upper ball joint and the lower arm ball joint.

So if the caster angle changes, or ride height changes, it could throw off the toe angle at the front.

On another somewhat related note, there could be a solution to their weird understeer problem if they play around with the alignment, there has to be a balance struck between what is mechanically beneficial and what is aerodynamically beneficial in order to get the best of both worlds.

If the rear aero comes on too quick you get understeer, if it comes on too late you get oversteer, but the front steering angle and the toe curve as the car rolls has an influence on the toe angle in certain parts of the corner.

One side effect of having more caster is less need for static camber, because caster creates dynamic camber depending on steering lock. More caster also creates more wheel self aligning torque, which can trick a driver into experiencing grip that isn't there. Caster also creates a lever moment on the wheel when steering lock is applied, and increases steering effort in general.

Reducing caster can give the car more precise steering inputs at the expense of some front stability.

[godlameroso]

Mercedes didn't think optimistic like many people here. If they thought like them they would change whole pu elements and would start from back of grid.
They trade off between being full fresh and grid position. Now they have reliability risk. Or may be they will take their penalty for remained elements at another track. We will see what they will do. A change or try to see if they will withstand along with new ice..

Ok, but discuss that in the Mercedes thread.

[godlameroso]

RB will be stronger in COTA, back in the championship lead and the double podium eats into Mercedes constructor's lead, good race all things considered.

Mercedes extended their lead in the WCC today.

It was just the nature of the track, the waterblasting and smooth surface benefitted Mercedes.

The surface wasn’t smooth. It was smooth last year, and Merc couldn’t generate tire temp.

The water-blasting made the surface grippier and more abrasive.

You're right about that.

It looked pretty smooth to me(lack of bumps), and not at all like COTA is currently(lots of bumps almost like Sebring).

Yes the grippier more abrasive surface played into Mercedes hands. In this regard, this track was unique.

Because the tarmac is more weathered and less abrasive in COTA as well as being more bumpy in general, things should even out once more.

[godlameroso]

RB need/needed a season as short as the last to hope for the championship. Right now it looks bleak I'm afraid, Mercedes are annihilating Red Bull on the straights, Qatar and Abu Dhabi will be bloody among the rest. Also Perez is not dependable at all and I believe if Verstappen had a fast, consistent rear gunner he'd still have a good cushion in the drivers championship. Max has to win both Mexico and Brazil and have Perez come second, then also hope for some Mercedes screw up somewhere else to have a shot at the championship, IMO

It is still Max's championship to lose. Do not let today fool you. Max still has a car that will be plus or minus 2 tenths everywhere which is okay. His team is also the best strategically. It can work out. Mercedes is like a fumbling juggler when it comes to predicting when theyre going to drop the ball.

The more you think about making a mistake the easier it is to make one.

[zibby43]

You're right about that.

It looked pretty smooth to me(lack of bumps), and not at all like COTA is currently(lots of bumps almost like Sebring).

Yes the grippier more abrasive surface played into Mercedes hands. In this regard, this track was unique.

Because the tarmac is more weathered and less abrasive in COTA as well as being more bumpy in general, things should even out once more.

That makes sense re: the bumps, and I agree that COTA is *much* bumpier.

The superficial repairs they recently made at COTA just aren’t enough. It’s a shame because the layout is fantastic.

[godlameroso]

You're right about that.

It looked pretty smooth to me(lack of bumps), and not at all like COTA is currently(lots of bumps almost like Sebring).

Yes the grippier more abrasive surface played into Mercedes hands. In this regard, this track was unique.

Because the tarmac is more weathered and less abrasive in COTA as well as being more bumpy in general, things should even out once more.

That makes sense re: the bumps, and I agree that COTA is *much* bumpier.

The superficial repairs they recently made at COTA just aren’t enough. It’s a shame because the layout is fantastic.

I like the bumps, it gives the circuit character.

[hkbruin]

You're right about that.

It looked pretty smooth to me(lack of bumps), and not at all like COTA is currently(lots of bumps almost like Sebring).

Yes the grippier more abrasive surface played into Mercedes hands. In this regard, this track was unique.

Because the tarmac is more weathered and less abrasive in COTA as well as being more bumpy in general, things should even out once more.

That makes sense re: the bumps, and I agree that COTA is *much* bumpier.

The superficial repairs they recently made at COTA just aren’t enough. It’s a shame because the layout is fantastic.

I like the bumps, it gives the circuit character.

We should enjoy it as it will be the last year with the bumpy surface. From all of the complaints and incidents from MotoGP last week, there will be need to be a significant resurfacing of the track like Silverstone had to go thru. I’ll be at the race next week in Austin, and very much looking forward to a competitive race. I don’t know if Red Bull will be ahead of The Mercs though because they’ve one here every single time except for one Ferrari win in the last 8 years.

[godlameroso]

That makes sense re: the bumps, and I agree that COTA is *much* bumpier.

The superficial repairs they recently made at COTA just aren’t enough. It’s a shame because the layout is fantastic.

I like the bumps, it gives the circuit character.

We should enjoy it as it will be the last year with the bumpy surface. From all of the complaints and incidents from MotoGP last week, there will be need to be a significant resurfacing of the track like Silverstone had to go thru. I’ll be at the race next week in Austin, and very much looking forward to a competitive race. I don’t know if Red Bull will be ahead of The Mercs though because they’ve one here every single time except for one Ferrari win in the last 8 years.

It seems Marquez is the only manly man in Moto GP. Mercedes had dominated in France since 2018, and we saw what happened this year. Honda has traditionally been strong at Austin even in the McLaren years. So I think it will be close, closer than it was in 2019. Again, you don't need to run as much downforce at Austin as you do in Turkey, so it's likely the car will be better balanced.

[Gillian]

Just to debunk the nonsense about Perez being happy with the car when Verstappen isn't...

From Motorsport.com:

Asked if his first top three finish in nine races came as a relief, Perez said a podium had been coming for a while if it hadn't been for a streak of misfortune.

"Honestly, the last few races I've been so unlucky," he replied. "In Monza I finished on the podium, but I had the penalty. In Russia with three laps ago, I was on the podium.

"It's been coming already for many, many races. But certainly it's nice, especially in a race like today where I felt so uncomfortable with the car, and we didn't have quite the pace to match the Mercedes."

On Saturday Perez qualified down in seventh, half a second off Verstappen, after he was left with only one new set of tyres for the decisive Q3 shootout.

It proved a blip on an otherwise more competitive weekend for the Mexican, who believes he has turned a corner in terms of his own performance.

"Yeah, definitely. The whole weekend has been a lot more competitive," he said.

"In qualifying we didn't get the opportunity to show that because we were very aggressive with our strategy, so that put us on the back foot with the soft tyres in qualifying.

"And I think we just needed those couple of tenths that we had in in hand, because we've shown good pace throughout the weekend and I'm sure we could have had a much better qualifying.

"So, certainly I can see that the understanding [is there] and that I'm getting more together with the car."

[Kingshark]

Right now, the only way Red Bull is winning this championship is via a significant aerodynamic upgrade.

Mercedes have gained enormously through engine power alone. This Red Bull car simply isn’t good enough. Monza, Sochi and Turkey are three separate tracks where Merc have held a clear advantage. If the cars stay exactly as they are then Hamilton will coast to the championship like Vettel did in 2013.

Does anyone know if Red Bull still have this car developing in the windtunnel? A few months ago, Mark Hughes claimed that Red Bull’s 2021 car was still in the windtunnel, and while Mercedes is focussing solely on 2022.

We need an aerodynamic upgrade badly.

[Mr.S]

Austin is a Mercedes track, not as much as Monza or Sochi but atleast as much as Turkey. Mercedes will be 2-3 tenths ahead comfortably. Mercedes has always won in Austin except maybe when Ferrari had that illegal engine. Another issue is during Bahrain, Merc & RB were tied in race pace of sorts (Now Mercedes have a tenth or 2)..

The track requires good engine power & straightline speed. I don't see Max winning the WDC unless RB brings upgrades worth 2 tenths which is the gap to Mercedes. I also think people are over-estimating Brazil, RB will @ best be marginally ahead like Zandvoord & it will be a race where Mercedes will be competitive. Mexico on the other hand should be advantage Mercedes. Even if Max wins Mexico & Brazil (& loses USA), Saudi/Qatar should also uphold the 2 tenths advantage.

RB needs updates. There are 6 races to go !

It is to late for updates. The car is balanced, the setup is understandable. Any new aero parts will need some testmiles first and learn the team how to change the setup, to make it work.

Also no more power updates, as they are not adding new engines to the pool.

It is up to the drivers now.

Marko just said that they are well behind the Mercedes engine & can't do anything about it. The car will be competitive in Mexico & Brazil & by pace they expect Mercedes to win all of the balance 5 races which would end the championship.

And he said that they somehow need to squeeze even more from the aero/chassis side to make up for the engine deficit. They need minimum 2 tenths for this WDC to be competitive. And time is running out. They need in USA or by Brazil/Mexico @ the latest so that they can fight the last 3 races almost @ par with Mercedes. Given how close Mclaren & Ferrari, if Max makes minor mistakes, chances of him dropping away from podium places & loosing huge points is a possibility !

[Mr.S]

Austin is a Mercedes track, not as much as Monza or Sochi but atleast as much as Turkey. Mercedes will be 2-3 tenths ahead comfortably. Mercedes has always won in Austin except maybe when Ferrari had that illegal engine. Another issue is during Bahrain, Merc & RB were tied in race pace of sorts (Now Mercedes have a tenth or 2)..

The track requires good engine power & straightline speed. I don't see Max winning the WDC unless RB brings upgrades worth 2 tenths which is the gap to Mercedes. I also think people are over-estimating Brazil, RB will @ best be marginally ahead like Zandvoord & it will be a race where Mercedes will be competitive. Mexico on the other hand should be advantage Mercedes. Even if Max wins Mexico & Brazil (& loses USA), Saudi/Qatar should also uphold the 2 tenths advantage.

RB needs updates. There are 6 races to go !

I think this very much your opinion, but I guess no reason to convince you otherwise. To you it's as if Mercedes are fast everywhere with no weaknesses.

Mercedes in Hungary qualifying were way quicker & were quicker in the dry (Difficult to judge by how much since Max got damage & Perez retired).
Mercedes in Monza was 0.5s quicker in qualifying & probably 3-4 tenths quicker in the race, maybe a shade less.
Mercedes in Sochi were again close to the 0.5s qualifying gap & were probably 2-3 tenths quicker, maybe 4.
Mercedes in Turkey were 3 tenths quicker in qualy & 2 tenths odd quicker in the race
In Zandvoort with high banking, Max was 2 tenths quicker in Qualy (Assuming the DRS issue didn't happen, he was less than 1 tenth quicker) & Max was 1 tenth quicker in Holland.

Silverstone - Mercedes were probably a tenth quicker, maybe more or maybe tied.

This is fact & data - Not biased logic. 1 thing I find very interesting from diehard Lewis fans is that - when RB has a car on par with Mercedes on 1 tenth quicker - Championship is over, Max's to lose, Dominant RB.

When Mercedes had a car 3-4-5 tenths quicker, the cars are tied - Roughly 1 tenth there n there, Still Max's to lose, etc.

One of the most illogical & hypocritical behavior that I have seen. Anyways, to each his own !