2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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McG
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Macklaren wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:56 pm
McG wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:35 pm
ScottR267 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:21 pm
https://www.essentiallysports.com/f1-ne ... RTcKtsDtwQ

Could be interesting if true.
It's just a random article by some random guy. I'll be another random guy and say that there's no way McLaren would sell 100% to VAG in any of their evil forms and drop the McLaren name. Maybe if VAG bought McLaren and still kept the McLaren name and used one of their names as an engine supplier and a title sponsor would work. After all McLaren is Saudi owned so who cares if that switches to VAG. VAG are good at letting their brands race hard against each other or so it seems, so McLaren would be another gem for them. Teaming up with Porsche as an engine supplier seems more likely but no one can tell the future.

Imagine if VAG bought McLaren and in GT3 racing we were watching a race with all these brands owned by VAG...

Audi
Porsche
Lamborghini
Bentley
McLaren
Actually this article quotes Joe Saward who is far from a random guy. He is one of the most well connected journalists in the paddock. I still have a hard time seeing this happen and even Joe's original story doesn't have the same conviction as when he is certain about things, but there is a little smoke here for sure.
Umm no. Any journalist in F1 is pretty much a random guy. Ask Zak Brown where he thinks McLaren will be in 2016 and beyond and even he probably doesn't even know. I don't know what makes anyone think journalists are special. They are reporters, a mouthpiece for whatever field they are in who just reiterate what they are told. They are even less special nowadays because we have so much direct easily accessible information available to us.
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mwillems
mwillems
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Ground Effect wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:31 pm
Macklaren wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:56 pm
McG wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:35 pm


It's just a random article by some random guy. I'll be another random guy and say that there's no way McLaren would sell 100% to VAG in any of their evil forms and drop the McLaren name. Maybe if VAG bought McLaren and still kept the McLaren name and used one of their names as an engine supplier and a title sponsor would work. After all McLaren is Saudi owned so who cares if that switches to VAG. VAG are good at letting their brands race hard against each other or so it seems, so McLaren would be another gem for them. Teaming up with Porsche as an engine supplier seems more likely but no one can tell the future.

Imagine if VAG bought McLaren and in GT3 racing we were watching a race with all these brands owned by VAG...

Audi
Porsche
Lamborghini
Bentley
McLaren
Actually this article quotes Joe Saward who is far from a random guy. He is one of the most well connected journalists in the paddock. I still have a hard time seeing this happen and even Joe's original story doesn't have the same conviction as when he is certain about things, but there is a little smoke here for sure.
This is just pure speculation, in my opinion. They’re just making assumptions based on McLaren’s current financial situation. But there have been stronger links between VAG and Red Bull.
Exactly, plenty of uncertainty and journo's love to live in that space, plenty of room to do what they want. Nobody apart from those in the group, really know where the team are with the financials. But given that they have closed over half a billion in deals for incoming cash injections, I'm not sure there is too much real financial uncertainty right now.

Obviously, they still need to sell a ton of cars but who knows where they are at with that.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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the EDGE wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:09 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:57 pm
All you need is 51%.



Anyways... I think the article is a joke cause it says "Formula One has always been at the forefront of technology and innovation." Yet the rumor is that they only want in if we use antiquated turbo technology.


I find it Ludacris that between 2030 - 2040 majority countries will forbit the sale of new combustion powered vehicles and F1 is considering that type of PU for 2026ish and beyond. Forefront of technology but a dinosaur as a PU.
Wow… so what do you call people who still race horses?

Electric is great for the road, but totally unsuitable as a form of entertainment. FE has proved that

The Horses in horse racing keeps getting faster. That being said horse racing is nowhere near as popular or profitable than it was 40 years ago, not sure that's the roadmap F1 wants to use.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:11 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:09 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:57 pm
All you need is 51%.



Anyways... I think the article is a joke cause it says "Formula One has always been at the forefront of technology and innovation." Yet the rumor is that they only want in if we use antiquated turbo technology.


I find it Ludacris that between 2030 - 2040 majority countries will forbit the sale of new combustion powered vehicles and F1 is considering that type of PU for 2026ish and beyond. Forefront of technology but a dinosaur as a PU.
Wow… so what do you call people who still race horses?

Electric is great for the road, but totally unsuitable as a form of entertainment. FE has proved that

The Horses in horse racing keeps getting faster. That being said horse racing is nowhere near as popular or profitable than it was 40 years ago, not sure that's the roadmap F1 wants to use.
The 'technology' has moved on to veterinary medicine/science today. The horses today are faster stronger and have more stamina, just as the cars have progressed. The other area to compare is sailing/rowing. Looks the same but is very tec oriented.
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diffuser
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:09 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:31 pm
Macklaren wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:56 pm


Actually this article quotes Joe Saward who is far from a random guy. He is one of the most well connected journalists in the paddock. I still have a hard time seeing this happen and even Joe's original story doesn't have the same conviction as when he is certain about things, but there is a little smoke here for sure.
This is just pure speculation, in my opinion. They’re just making assumptions based on McLaren’s current financial situation. But there have been stronger links between VAG and Red Bull.
Exactly, plenty of uncertainty and journo's love to live in that space, plenty of room to do what they want. Nobody apart from those in the group, really know where the team are with the financials. But given that they have closed over half a billion in deals for incoming cash injections, I'm not sure there is too much real financial uncertainty right now.

Obviously, they still need to sell a ton of cars but who knows where they are at with that.
People are piping in on the Sale of McLaren thing. Some for some against.... What would selling McLaren look like ? What does it mean to people ?

McLaren is owned by the "The McLaren Group"

The McLaren Group's current shareholding is:
Mumtalakat Holding Company 56.4%,
TAG Group Limited 14.32%,
Nidala (BVI) Limited (Michael Latifi) 9.84%,
Favorita Limited 5.78%,
Perlman Investments Limited 5.77%,
McKal Holdings Ltd 5.24%,
Acanitt Limited 2.65%.


Pretty sure McLaren wouldn't have anything to do with the sale of the McLaren group. If VW walked over to Mumtalakat Holding and offered them $1.2 Billion for 56.4%, and Mumtalakat accepted. It would be a done deal. Nothing would even change come Monday morning. I doubt they would even change the PU deal unless They decided to build one themselves but that wouldn't be till 2026 at the earliest. Zak would stay on, cause right now he's doing a good job. So I guess I don't understand why anyone cares?

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djos
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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It's highly unlikely VAG would want to buy McLaren when they already have Lamborgini and Porche and have just given control of Bugatti to Rimac.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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djos wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:36 pm
It's highly unlikely VAG would want to buy McLaren when they already have Lamborgini and Porche and have just given control of Bugatti to Rimac.
I see a bigger problem on the horizon with car sales in general. I don't understand what the selling point of a car will be once we get to self driving cars. The luxury self driver will have a strong selling point but what's gonna happen with that sports car market? Is anyone gonna care how well a car handles when it's driving itself and the owners not even watching the road?

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djos
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:44 pm
djos wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:36 pm
It's highly unlikely VAG would want to buy McLaren when they already have Lamborgini and Porche and have just given control of Bugatti to Rimac.
I see a bigger problem on the horizon with car sales in general. I don't understand what the selling point of a car will be once we get to self driving cars. The luxury self driver will have a strong selling point but what's gonna happen with that sports car market? Is anyone gonna care how well a car handles when it's driving itself and the owners not even watching the road?
I'd have thought that the car enthusiast market would still be strong - there's just something satisfying about driving a car fast and being in control.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

mwillems
mwillems
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:11 pm

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:33 pm
mwillems wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:09 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:31 pm


This is just pure speculation, in my opinion. They’re just making assumptions based on McLaren’s current financial situation. But there have been stronger links between VAG and Red Bull.
Exactly, plenty of uncertainty and journo's love to live in that space, plenty of room to do what they want. Nobody apart from those in the group, really know where the team are with the financials. But given that they have closed over half a billion in deals for incoming cash injections, I'm not sure there is too much real financial uncertainty right now.

Obviously, they still need to sell a ton of cars but who knows where they are at with that.
People are piping in on the Sale of McLaren thing. Some for some against.... What would selling McLaren look like ? What does it mean to people ?

McLaren is owned by the "The McLaren Group"

The McLaren Group's current shareholding is:
Mumtalakat Holding Company 56.4%,
TAG Group Limited 14.32%,
Nidala (BVI) Limited (Michael Latifi) 9.84%,
Favorita Limited 5.78%,
Perlman Investments Limited 5.77%,
McKal Holdings Ltd 5.24%,
Acanitt Limited 2.65%.


Pretty sure McLaren wouldn't have anything to do with the sale of the McLaren group. If VW walked over to Mumtalakat Holding and offered them $1.2 Billion for 56.4%, and Mumtalakat accepted. It would be a done deal. Nothing would even change come Monday morning. I doubt they would even change the PU deal unless They decided to build one themselves but that wouldn't be till 2026 at the earliest. Zak would stay on, cause right now he's doing a good job. So I guess I don't understand why anyone cares?
I understood it to be more VW buying the team not the group. I can't see the group allowing that separation. And I think the conversations were about whether the group needs to draw down on the equity in the F1 team. I don't think it does.

As for the group? Who knows, that's a different, more complex and more expensive story. Hell, apple even pondered a takeover at one point.
I haven't a clue but we are quite indebted and I'd imagine it will be a long time before our revenues pick back up, so our debt ratio must be worrying even if it is serviceable.

If there was a time to purchase the group, this wouldn't be the worst time. But it won't be bought now, by VW at least. VW need the future rules sorted out first I think. They are also transitioning to electric, so I'm not sure how it makes sense, unless they released a Mclaren Senna EV.... which would be ok I guess....
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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djos wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:03 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:44 pm
djos wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:36 pm
It's highly unlikely VAG would want to buy McLaren when they already have Lamborgini and Porche and have just given control of Bugatti to Rimac.
I see a bigger problem on the horizon with car sales in general. I don't understand what the selling point of a car will be once we get to self driving cars. The luxury self driver will have a strong selling point but what's gonna happen with that sports car market? Is anyone gonna care how well a car handles when it's driving itself and the owners not even watching the road?
I'd have thought that the car enthusiast market would still be strong - there's just something satisfying about driving a car fast and being in control.
Not sure how far off this is but at some point cars will move to a hive mind technology. Where the vehicles willl use open software to communicate with each other and move as one. They'll move much fsster and everyone will know who's slotting in where. They'll move like smart traincars. When we get there, driving yourself will have to be on a circuit.

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diffuser
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:40 am
diffuser wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:33 pm
mwillems wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:09 pm


Exactly, plenty of uncertainty and journo's love to live in that space, plenty of room to do what they want. Nobody apart from those in the group, really know where the team are with the financials. But given that they have closed over half a billion in deals for incoming cash injections, I'm not sure there is too much real financial uncertainty right now.

Obviously, they still need to sell a ton of cars but who knows where they are at with that.
People are piping in on the Sale of McLaren thing. Some for some against.... What would selling McLaren look like ? What does it mean to people ?

McLaren is owned by the "The McLaren Group"

The McLaren Group's current shareholding is:
Mumtalakat Holding Company 56.4%,
TAG Group Limited 14.32%,
Nidala (BVI) Limited (Michael Latifi) 9.84%,
Favorita Limited 5.78%,
Perlman Investments Limited 5.77%,
McKal Holdings Ltd 5.24%,
Acanitt Limited 2.65%.


Pretty sure McLaren wouldn't have anything to do with the sale of the McLaren group. If VW walked over to Mumtalakat Holding and offered them $1.2 Billion for 56.4%, and Mumtalakat accepted. It would be a done deal. Nothing would even change come Monday morning. I doubt they would even change the PU deal unless They decided to build one themselves but that wouldn't be till 2026 at the earliest. Zak would stay on, cause right now he's doing a good job. So I guess I don't understand why anyone cares?
I understood it to be more VW buying the team not the group. I can't see the group allowing that separation. And I think the conversations were about whether the group needs to draw down on the equity in the F1 team. I don't think it does.

As for the group? Who knows, that's a different, more complex and more expensive story. Hell, apple even pondered a takeover at one point.
I haven't a clue but we are quite indebted and I'd imagine it will be a long time before our revenues pick back up, so our debt ratio must be worrying even if it is serviceable.

If there was a time to purchase the group, this wouldn't be the worst time. But it won't be bought now, by VW at least. VW need the future rules sorted out first I think. They are also transitioning to electric, so I'm not sure how it makes sense, unless they released a Mclaren Senna EV.... which would be ok I guess....
Hmmm, that was interesting. Hadn't looked at it like that I guess...What makes F1 interesting from a financial point of view, right now, is all the teams will start turning a profit in the near future. The CAP is going to do that. It's gonna go from a lost leader to the gravy train.

mwillems
mwillems
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Yeah the team should be able to break even at least, we may even make a profit, but we have CapEx projects and salaries to be paid for, amongst other things, so I guess the real cost could be another £30m per year on top of the budget cap (finger in air guess there). I think our F1 team revenues stood at around £170m last year so we are at least break even. I don't think it will ever be a particular revenue generator for the group which is why they were happy to sell 33% of the team, they don't lose control or really much income.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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bauc
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Формула 1 на Македонски - The first ever Macedonian Formula 1 YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJkjCv ... 6rVRgKASwg

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:05 am
djos wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:03 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:44 pm


I see a bigger problem on the horizon with car sales in general. I don't understand what the selling point of a car will be once we get to self driving cars. The luxury self driver will have a strong selling point but what's gonna happen with that sports car market? Is anyone gonna care how well a car handles when it's driving itself and the owners not even watching the road?
I'd have thought that the car enthusiast market would still be strong - there's just something satisfying about driving a car fast and being in control.
Not sure how far off this is but at some point cars will move to a hive mind technology. Where the vehicles willl use open software to communicate with each other and move as one. They'll move much fsster and everyone will know who's slotting in where. They'll move like smart traincars. When we get there, driving yourself will have to be on a circuit.
That's a long way off. How would you build the infrastructure? How would you cope with old cars that are not self-driving? Not everyone can afford a new car. What about those of us who do not trust technology enough to go self-driving? (Hell, my top of the range Audi e tron can't even recognise the correct speed limit on a sign post!!) How do you account for emergency vehicles, foreign vehicles, etc etc etc. I think it will be decade's at least before we see self driving cars become anything other than a rarity, or at best reserved for use on motorways where you'd just tell it what junction you need to get off at.
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mclaren111
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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the EDGE wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:09 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:57 pm
All you need is 51%.



Anyways... I think the article is a joke cause it says "Formula One has always been at the forefront of technology and innovation." Yet the rumor is that they only want in if we use antiquated turbo technology.


I find it Ludacris that between 2030 - 2040 majority countries will forbit the sale of new combustion powered vehicles and F1 is considering that type of PU for 2026ish and beyond. Forefront of technology but a dinosaur as a PU.
Wow… so what do you call people who still race horses?

Electric is great for the road, but totally unsuitable as a form of entertainment. FE has proved that

Amen my Man...