Red Bull RB16B

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
zibby43
zibby43
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Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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What I want to know is, why did the RB not experience any of the balance/understeer issues they experienced in Hungary and Turkey, prior to Silverstone (when the new rear tire construction was introduced), with respect to the 2021 season specifically? Are there articles discussing this issue prior to Hungary?

“Balance” is a broad stroke word, but it seems the issues in Hungary and Turkey were understeer-oriented.

A large swath of races passed in the early part of the season where this wasn’t an issue, across a wide variety of circuits. And since Silverstone, the issue popped up 2x in relatively rapid succession at fairly different circuit types.

Thoughts?

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ispano6
114
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my playseat

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Regarding the under-steer at Istanbul, Marko, Horner, Seidl, etc have been quoted to have mentioned that the surface had more grip than expected. https://the-race.com/formula-1/the-ista ... d-drivers/

In any case, I'm keen to see how Red Bull will set up the RB16b for this weekend considering the bumps etc. I'll be at the COTA bright and early from Friday morning and will be with another fellow forum member. I'm hoping we'll get some special access if he can pull some strings ;)

b2bL44
b2bL44
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:46 am

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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zibby43 wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:10 am
ispano6 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:16 am
b2bL44 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:18 am

This isn't a pantomime, so I'm not going to go back and forth with you ad infinitum "yes you did, no I didn't".

Thief? Quite apt:



https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plagiarize

Not only have you plagiarised someone else's hard work, when called out, you've doubled-down and lied about it instead of owning up to it.

This is a technical forum where people come to learn, share and discuss ideas. If we are lucky enough an expert will drop by to share their knowledge. The least you can do is credit those who work hard to communicate this information to us, as a result they get to earn a living and we get to learn more about a shared passion.
Since you mention "plagiarize" you should also be careful of "defamation" and "libel". The talk about Red Bull's balance issues have existed since the RB16 of last year, well ahead of the 2021 Season Istanbul race and the balance issues of the 2021 RB16b were well known. You just seem to have assumed that because someone "reputable" has recently written about it that a member here "plagiarized" his work. That would be jumping to conclusions. Godlameroso is talking about tow and squat - those weren't mentioned in the article you quoted.
Just as a completely friendly FYI, libel (which falls under the umbrella of defamation) isn’t really relevant to anything that’s happening here haha.

Of the several elements required to successfully litigate a libel claim, there must be actual, quantifiable damages (usually measured as monetary losses suffered as a result of false accusations). Also, at least in the U.S., there is considerable deference given to people’s opinions. Otherwise, there would be countless libel lawsuits initiated by restaurants attempting to sue people for bad reviews on Yelp and Google! :lol:

Anyway . . .

What I want to know is, why did the RB not experience any of the balance/understeer issues they experienced in Hungary and Turkey, prior to Silverstone (when the new rear tire construction was introduced), with respect to the 2021 season specifically? Are there articles discussing this issue prior to Hungary?

“Balance” is a broad stroke word, but it seems the issues in Hungary and Turkey were understeer-oriented.

A large swath of races passed in the early part of the season where this wasn’t an issue, across a wide variety of circuits. And since Silverstone, the issue popped up 2x in relatively rapid succession at fairly different circuit types.

Thoughts?
For 2021 you'd have to compare the rear wings the team used for each track, is there a correlation between the rear wing that's been utilised and the imbalance issues?

In Hungary this year they maxed out the front wing to balance the car and dial out the understeer, didn't work. Same rear wing used at Turkey? Dunno.

Also 3 further variables come into play since the start of the season:

1. Flexi rear wing Technical Directive 018-21 effective French GP
2. Tyre pressure/temperature/air humidity Technical Directive 003 effective French GP
3. Stiffer tyre construction effective Silverstone

aral
aral
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Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Can we please get back to the topic instead of debating plagarism, copyright etc

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Morteza
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:23 pm
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

Laur3ns
Laur3ns
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Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:20 am

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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As Twitter already noticed: that is not the Acura wing. Transport wing or old pic?

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Morteza
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:23 pm
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Laur3ns wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:35 pm
As Twitter already noticed: that is not the Acura wing. Transport wing or old pic?
I posted the photo above because it shows the packaging.
That is not from today, this one is
Image
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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godlameroso
310
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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zibby43 wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:10 am
What I want to know is, why did the RB not experience any of the balance/understeer issues they experienced in Hungary and Turkey, prior to Silverstone (when the new rear tire construction was introduced), with respect to the 2021 season specifically? Are there articles discussing this issue prior to Hungary?

“Balance” is a broad stroke word, but it seems the issues in Hungary and Turkey were understeer-oriented.

A large swath of races passed in the early part of the season where this wasn’t an issue, across a wide variety of circuits. And since Silverstone, the issue popped up 2x in relatively rapid succession at fairly different circuit types.

Thoughts?
Short memories, the issue was present since Barcelona. They opted for a less aggressive rear wing because "top speed" disadvantage. Which is funny when you consider they had a flexing rear wing which would have nullified any top speed disadvantage.
Saishū kōnā

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JordanMugen
62
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Excellent pic! Nice to see it without the internal aero covers and without some of the accessories & hoses. =D>

A beautiful piece of packaging. =D> :D

deschrijver
deschrijver
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 9:09 pm

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Why is there that thick glue on the camcover bridge?

scarbs
scarbs
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:47 am
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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It's high temperature rtv sealant. Used to join to heatshield to the head

Alexf1
Alexf1
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Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:52 pm

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Were there any updates on the car in Austin?

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lio007
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Alexf1 wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:30 am
Were there any updates on the car in Austin?
A Red Bull employee on Autosport forum posted that the updates work well. But I dont know what kind of updates he was referring to. At least I havent seen anything in the media.

Alexf1
Alexf1
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Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:52 pm

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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lio007 wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:54 am
Alexf1 wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:30 am
Were there any updates on the car in Austin?
A Red Bull employee on Autosport forum posted that the updates work well. But I dont know what kind of updates he was referring to. At least I havent seen anything in the media.
Thanks, strange so little is known. In Monza Horner said the RB16b was nearing the end of its life cycle so surely we must have seen something by now. Last year the final update came in Turkey (mid nov). So I hope the good form in Austin came from an update (which also worked better for Sergio). I think the performance gain was too great to just be setup optimization.

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Wouter
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Alexf1 wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:28 pm
lio007 wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:54 am
Alexf1 wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:30 am
Were there any updates on the car in Austin?
A Red Bull employee on Autosport forum posted that the updates work well. But I dont know what kind of updates he was referring to. At least I havent seen anything in the media.
Thanks, strange so little is known. In Monza Horner said the RB16b was nearing the end of its life cycle so surely we must have seen something by now. Last year the final update came in Turkey (mid nov). So I hope the good form in Austin came from an update (which also worked better for Sergio). I think the performance gain was too great to just be setup optimization.
Helmut Marko in Der Kronen Zeitung Friday 22.10.2021 09:02:

Zuletzt in Istanbul hatte Red Bulls Motorsportchef Helmut Marko erklärt, dass man sich bezüglich des Speeds von Lewis Hamilton und Mercedes Sorgen machen müsse („Uns fehlen 15 km/h“): "Wir hatten seither viele intensive Meetings und Analysen. In der Theorie haben wir ein Gegenmittel gefunden, aber schauen wir einmal, wie das in der Praxis aussieht.
Klar dürfte sein, dass das österreichisch-britische Team in Milton Keynes sein ohnehin schon bemerkenswert gutes Chassis weiter optimieren konnte.

Most recently in Istanbul, Red Bull's Head of Motorsport Helmut Marko said that one had to worry about the speed of Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes (“We are missing 15 km / h”): “We have had many intensive meetings and analyzes since then.
We found an antidote in theory, but let's see how it looks in practice."
It should be clear that the Austro-British team in Milton Keynes was able to further optimize its already remarkably good chassis.

I don't think he was speaking about the setup.
The Power of Honda!