2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[SiLo]

That's not going to go down well with the "he's only winning because of the best car" and "the car was developed by Schumacher, not Hamilton" brigades...

I wonder what insider knowledge JV has or what qualification he has, more than anyone on this forum, to comment on that topic! I thought he was from Red Bull stable.

What knowledge does he need ?

He said he spoke to Lewis face to face (2 years before Mercedes won any championship) and said that Lewis is crazy to leave Mclaren for Mercedes. Lewis replied with "I need to build a team around me to beat Sebastian"

Mclaren didn't want to build the team around 1 driver at the time.

So Lewis did what he said to JEV. Went to Mercedes , has built the team around himself, and has become the most successful driver the planet has ever seen.

So all JEV was saying was, it wasn't luck, Lewis went to a team and he had the same vision the team had, and everything worked out exctly how they planned it driver and team.

What knowledge does JEV need ?

I don't like calling it luck that hundreds of men and women worked their asses off to build a great car, and Lewis himself left what was a top top team to build something with them.

[Ryar]

That's not going to go down well with the "he's only winning because of the best car" and "the car was developed by Schumacher, not Hamilton" brigades...

I wonder what insider knowledge JV has or what qualification he has, more than anyone on this forum, to comment on that topic! I thought he was from Red Bull stable.

What knowledge does he need ?

He said he spoke to Lewis face to face (2 years before Mercedes won any championship) and said that Lewis is crazy to leave Mclaren for Mercedes. Lewis replied with "I need to build a team around me to beat Sebastian"

Mclaren didn't want to build the team around 1 driver at the time.

So Lewis did what he said to JEV. Went to Mercedes , has built the team around himself, and has become the most successful driver the planet has ever seen.

So all JEV was saying was, it wasn't luck, Lewis went to a team and he had the same vision the team had, and everything worked out exctly how they planned it driver and team.

What knowledge does JEV need ?

I wonder then why James Vowels said in the "Brackley Boys" podcast, "when he came to Mercedes, he was a mercenary, out there to drive for himself". I guess that was his idea of building a team.

Rosberg was there before Lewis and had built a reputation of being very intelligent and integral part of the team. James, Toto and Brawn have all quoted the influence of Schumacher on the team, yet, Lewis didn't lucked into Mercedes, according to JV, who had "spoken to Lewis". Surprisingly, no one from Mercedes so far has attributed their foundation of success to Lewis.

[PlatinumZealot]

I was just listening to the Beyond The Grid podcast interview of Jean Vergne and he talks about why Lewis didn't luck out in getting the best car.

He told a story about how he spoke with Lewis while they were at India in 2012 and he asked Lewis why he was leaving McLaren (then one of the best teams in the grid) for a team that wasn't even close to winning any race. Lewis told Vergne that if he were to "beat Sebastian", he had to leave and build his own team around him.

Vergne said that conversation stuck with him and that because of that, he truly believed that the success of the Mercedes team and Lewis' record breaking run is all due to both the team's organizational greatness, and Lewis' long-term vision of what success would be like and how to achieve it. He added that while many drivers have talent and speed, not many have the kind of vision that Lewis had.

With all of Lewis' foundation, it looks like he's going after a new long-term goal, something he'll pursue after F1. For Rosberg for example it was in Green technologies, Lewis appears to be going after both Green tech and philanthropy.

I'm sure he would have included the 'Niki factor' in his calculations, and I feel equally as sure the missing Niki factor is costing them this year. Not a quantifiable factor, but there is 'something' missing

Remember Niki was one of Lewis biggest detractors next to Jackie Stewart at the time.
So Lewis was not expecting Niki to be good freinds but he knew that Niki Lauda was a serious man. I think Niki may have been that pinhole-lense into what was building up at Mercedes. Other than that, Niki seemed like another of the other "team advisors" up and down the grid. I remember no one was convinced it was a great move! Not even at the end of 2013!

[Gillian]

Of course it was lucky for Lewis to be driving for Mercedes. 2014 to 2016 success is largely, if not entirely, down to the monster engine advantage. There's no way Mercedes would not have won both championships in those years, with or without Hamilton.

Of course Hamilton came to Mercedes because he is one of the best drivers. No he wasn't lucky to beat Rosberg, if anything it was extremely lucky for Rosberg. Hamilton was better all the way.

As always the truth is in the middle. Hamilton is not a God who singlehandedly pushed Mercedes to double championships from 2014 to 2020. He's no slouch either who just lucked into the best car.

[dans79]

I was just listening to the Beyond The Grid podcast interview of Jean Vergne and he talks about why Lewis didn't luck out in getting the best car.
[...]

That's not going to go down well with the "he's only winning because of the best car" and "the car was developed by Schumacher, not Hamilton" brigades...

I wonder what insider knowledge JV has or what qualification he has, more than anyone on this forum, to comment on that topic! I thought he was from Red Bull stable.

Has actually driven a non digital F1 car in the last decade......

[NathanOlder]

I wonder what insider knowledge JV has or what qualification he has, more than anyone on this forum, to comment on that topic! I thought he was from Red Bull stable.

What knowledge does he need ?

He said he spoke to Lewis face to face (2 years before Mercedes won any championship) and said that Lewis is crazy to leave Mclaren for Mercedes. Lewis replied with "I need to build a team around me to beat Sebastian"

Mclaren didn't want to build the team around 1 driver at the time.

So Lewis did what he said to JEV. Went to Mercedes , has built the team around himself, and has become the most successful driver the planet has ever seen.

So all JEV was saying was, it wasn't luck, Lewis went to a team and he had the same vision the team had, and everything worked out exctly how they planned it driver and team.

What knowledge does JEV need ?

I wonder then why James Vowels said in the "Brackley Boys" podcast, "when he came to Mercedes, he was a mercenary, out there to drive for himself". I guess that was his idea of building a team.

Rosberg was there before Lewis and had built a reputation of being very intelligent and integral part of the team. James, Toto and Brawn have all quoted the influence of Schumacher on the team, yet, Lewis didn't lucked into Mercedes, according to JV, who had "spoken to Lewis". Surprisingly, no one from Mercedes so far has attributed their foundation of success to Lewis.

So does this change the fact that A- Lewis said he was going to Mercedes to build a team around himself. B- Thats what has happened. C-Together they have dominated like no other.

I guess you will tell me next that the W11 was dominant because of Ross and Michael

The lengths people go to , to try and make Lewis success seem less.

[Ryar]

What knowledge does he need ?

He said he spoke to Lewis face to face (2 years before Mercedes won any championship) and said that Lewis is crazy to leave Mclaren for Mercedes. Lewis replied with "I need to build a team around me to beat Sebastian"

Mclaren didn't want to build the team around 1 driver at the time.

So Lewis did what he said to JEV. Went to Mercedes , has built the team around himself, and has become the most successful driver the planet has ever seen.

So all JEV was saying was, it wasn't luck, Lewis went to a team and he had the same vision the team had, and everything worked out exctly how they planned it driver and team.

What knowledge does JEV need ?

I wonder then why James Vowels said in the "Brackley Boys" podcast, "when he came to Mercedes, he was a mercenary, out there to drive for himself". I guess that was his idea of building a team.

Rosberg was there before Lewis and had built a reputation of being very intelligent and integral part of the team. James, Toto and Brawn have all quoted the influence of Schumacher on the team, yet, Lewis didn't lucked into Mercedes, according to JV, who had "spoken to Lewis". Surprisingly, no one from Mercedes so far has attributed their foundation of success to Lewis.

So does this change the fact that A- Lewis said he was going to Mercedes to build a team around himself. B- Thats what has happened. C-Together they have dominated like no other.

I guess you will tell me next that the W11 was dominant because of Ross and Michael

The lengths people go to , to try and make Lewis success seem less.

Let me reword it. It doesn't change the fact that A- Lewis walked into Mercedes, which had built rocket ships without any innvolvement from him. B- That's what happened. C-With a dominant car, Lewis has dominated, despite having no interest in testing the car (by his own admission and something Nico reiterated in his latest statement).

The lengths people go to, to try and make Lewis success seem any greater.

Why is it so hard to accept the facts? I reiterate, so far, nobody from Mercedes has attributed their foundation of success to Lewis. It's well known fact that, Mercedes worked on building a hybrid engine, longer than anyone else. They had some clever ideas, which was fundamental to building a dominant car.

[dans79]

I wonder what insider knowledge JV has or what qualification he has, more than anyone on this forum, to comment on that topic! I thought he was from Red Bull stable.

Has actually driven a non digital F1 car in the last decade......

If driving a "Red Bull" stable F1 car gives inside information of the opposition teams, especially of the bitter rivals, then every single Red Bull driver is a genius.

If you've ever talked with someone who spends time in the paddock they will tell you it's a much tighter community than it looks from the outside. In many ways it's not much different than a small town, everyone knows about everyone else's business.

hence, having actually raced in F1, JV is a part of that community. He knows the rivalries, the politics, what it takes to compete at that level, what the different teams are like! He will also have had many private conversations with other drivers and members of the paddock.

[PlatinumZealot]

The data is in:
Mercedes has made progress on the car but is still slightly behind. If the cars are close... (I hope not. I hope Merc gains the lead) past experience should bring home the trophy.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/rob-smedl ... -hamilton/

[NathanOlder]

I wonder then why James Vowels said in the "Brackley Boys" podcast, "when he came to Mercedes, he was a mercenary, out there to drive for himself". I guess that was his idea of building a team.

Rosberg was there before Lewis and had built a reputation of being very intelligent and integral part of the team. James, Toto and Brawn have all quoted the influence of Schumacher on the team, yet, Lewis didn't lucked into Mercedes, according to JV, who had "spoken to Lewis". Surprisingly, no one from Mercedes so far has attributed their foundation of success to Lewis.

So does this change the fact that A- Lewis said he was going to Mercedes to build a team around himself. B- Thats what has happened. C-Together they have dominated like no other.

I guess you will tell me next that the W11 was dominant because of Ross and Michael

The lengths people go to , to try and make Lewis success seem less.

Let me reword it. It doesn't change the fact that A- Lewis walked into Mercedes, which had built rocket ships without any innvolvement from him. B- That's what happened. C-With a dominant car, Lewis has dominated, despite having no interest in testing the car (by his own admission and something Nico reiterated in his latest statement).

The lengths people go to, to try and make Lewis success seem any greater.

Why is it so hard to accept the facts? I reiterate, so far, nobody from Mercedes has attributed their foundation of success to Lewis. It's well known fact that, Mercedes worked on building a hybrid engine, longer than anyone else. They had some clever ideas, which was fundamental to building a dominant car.

A-they have built more rocket ships with him, than without him.

B-Mercedes signed Lewis, thats correct.

C-Lewis has dominated, thats also correct.

Since Mercedes returned to F1, they had 1 pole and 1 win without Lewis in the team. They have had over 100 of each since Lewis joined the team

[Gillian]

So does this change the fact that A- Lewis said he was going to Mercedes to build a team around himself. B- Thats what has happened. C-Together they have dominated like no other.

I guess you will tell me next that the W11 was dominant because of Ross and Michael

The lengths people go to , to try and make Lewis success seem less.

Let me reword it. It doesn't change the fact that A- Lewis walked into Mercedes, which had built rocket ships without any innvolvement from him. B- That's what happened. C-With a dominant car, Lewis has dominated, despite having no interest in testing the car (by his own admission and something Nico reiterated in his latest statement).

The lengths people go to, to try and make Lewis success seem any greater.

Why is it so hard to accept the facts? I reiterate, so far, nobody from Mercedes has attributed their foundation of success to Lewis. It's well known fact that, Mercedes worked on building a hybrid engine, longer than anyone else. They had some clever ideas, which was fundamental to building a dominant car.

A-they have built more rocket ships with him, than without him.

B-Mercedes signed Lewis, thats correct.

C-Lewis has dominated, thats also correct.

Since Mercedes returned to F1, they had 1 pole and 1 win without Lewis in the team. They have had over 100 of each since Lewis joined the team

How many wins and poles do you reckon they would have had without Hamilton? Hamilton is one of the best, just let that rest and honestly think about this question.

[Marty_Y]

Tbh this is getting stupid because if you can't see what an asset Hamilton has been to Mercedes and to the sport of F1 in general then quite frankly you are blind!

[Big Tea]

I was just listening to the Beyond The Grid podcast interview of Jean Vergne and he talks about why Lewis didn't luck out in getting the best car.

He told a story about how he spoke with Lewis while they were at India in 2012 and he asked Lewis why he was leaving McLaren (then one of the best teams in the grid) for a team that wasn't even close to winning any race. Lewis told Vergne that if he were to "beat Sebastian", he had to leave and build his own team around him.

Vergne said that conversation stuck with him and that because of that, he truly believed that the success of the Mercedes team and Lewis' record breaking run is all due to both the team's organizational greatness, and Lewis' long-term vision of what success would be like and how to achieve it. He added that while many drivers have talent and speed, not many have the kind of vision that Lewis had.

With all of Lewis' foundation, it looks like he's going after a new long-term goal, something he'll pursue after F1. For Rosberg for example it was in Green technologies, Lewis appears to be going after both Green tech and philanthropy.

I'm sure he would have included the 'Niki factor' in his calculations, and I feel equally as sure the missing Niki factor is costing them this year. Not a quantifiable factor, but there is 'something' missing

Remember Niki was one of Lewis biggest detractors next to Jackie Stewart at the time.
So Lewis was not expecting Niki to be good freinds but he knew that Niki Lauda was a serious man. I think Niki may have been that pinhole-lense into what was building up at Mercedes. Other than that, Niki seemed like another of the other "team advisors" up and down the grid. I remember no one was convinced it was a great move! Not even at the end of 2013!

I also considered Niki to be just hanging about in search of his glory days, but now have to admit I was wrong.
While is would never be possible to nail down what he did, we so often hear team members say he was a driving force.
It also seems the team has lost something from the time his influence was fading off.
OK, there are others that left, but possibly due to the same thing.

I quickly agree that there is and can be no 'proof' but I feel it is so.

[Just_a_fan]

Let me reword it. It doesn't change the fact that A- Lewis walked into Mercedes, which had built rocket ships without any innvolvement from him. B- That's what happened. C-With a dominant car, Lewis has dominated, despite having no interest in testing the car (by his own admission and something Nico reiterated in his latest statement).

The lengths people go to, to try and make Lewis success seem any greater.

Why is it so hard to accept the facts? I reiterate, so far, nobody from Mercedes has attributed their foundation of success to Lewis. It's well known fact that, Mercedes worked on building a hybrid engine, longer than anyone else. They had some clever ideas, which was fundamental to building a dominant car.

When Lewis joined, the team had no rocket ships. They had one win and one pole from three years of competition. Then Lewis joined and they had 6 poles and 3 wins, followed by 18 poles and 16 wins in the first year of the hybrid era. So, the idea that it was all just sat there waiting for him is not quite so clear cut.

Lewis has been very open about not liking testing. He's done the testing miles required of him by the team. But of course, testing has been limited by regulation so he couldn't do more than that anyway. It's not like he's said "nah, I won't do the week of testing you want me to do". He tests but he doesn't enjoy it - so what? He does what is required of him. So that's another red herring from the haters. You know why he doesn't like testing? Because it's boring. He doesn't need to spend time figuring out how to drive the car quicker. He does that naturally. So it's boring. We can all understand that - bits of every job are boring and we do them only because we have to.

What is it about Hamilton that you dislike? His nationality? HIs politics? HIs fashion choices? What he says? What he does? His colour? What?

[Just_a_fan]

Has actually driven a non digital F1 car in the last decade......

If driving a "Red Bull" stable F1 car gives inside information of the opposition teams, especially of the bitter rivals, then every single Red Bull driver is a genius.

If you've ever talked with someone who spends time in the paddock they will tell you it's a much tighter community than it looks from the outside. In many ways it's not much different than a small town, everyone knows about everyone else's business.

hence, having actually raced in F1, JV is a part of that community. He knows the rivalries, the politics, what it takes to compete at that level, what the different teams are like! He will also have had many private conversations with other drivers and members of the paddock.

If you've ever been in the paddock, you'll know that everyone talks to everyone else. These guys - from mechanics to drivers to team principals - have worked with each other in junior formulae. Drivers have been team mates, mechanics have worked on the same car. Everyone works their way up to F1 and all of them have been involved with others during that journey. F1 is not a sterile environment. It's why some drivers are known to be decent even if they're in a back marker team - the paddock see them all coming up through the junior formulae. They might not like an individual for personality reasons (jus as any of us may not like a colleague), but they know how good they are at their job because they know what they have done to get where they are. Rich-Daddy playboy drivers excluded, of course.

It amazes me how the Johnny-come-lately fans appear to see F1 as a silo environment. So naïve.