2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

[f1jcw]

and if he tampered with a part then failed testing? His direct competitior for the WDC?

That is pretty serious.

If that kind of touching (if he even touched it at all, which is not even clear from the movies) would change the configuration of the wing in any way, the whole damn thing should fall apart the first time that car hits a curb.
Yes, the FIA should investigate whether he tampered with it - but I find it a rather wild accusation.

I dont think people are saying he tampered with it. Its just a simple fact that it appears he touched it, at a time when no one is allowed to touch it. It's the breech of a very clear rule.

Exactly, and it is a easy out if they have a good enough lawyer.

The scrutineering did not follow the correct procedure.

[f1jcw]

Your comment makes no sense, how do you think a court comes to the conclusion that something has been tampered with? By having an expert examining & testing the item that is suspected having been tampered with to come to a !t! that it has or has not been tampered with. Or who else in a court do you think make the judgement that an item have been tampered with? The janitor? Or is there a hologram above every item in the world that says "Tempered with / Not tampered with"

Same thing would apply in this case

It is not hard to understand.


If there is a court case and it is found that the weapon of a murder suspect was tampered by agents of the prosecution or police, then the murder weapon would not be able to be added as evidence in the court.

I should not have to explain something so simple

You are being intentionally obtuse.

How do you find that something was tampered with?

You have an expert come in and give testimony, in your case, an expert on guns

Jesus, seriously, even after explained, you still don't get it.

There would be no expert as the gun would not be allowed to be offered as evidence. It would have to be removed.

It doesn't matter what the tampering, but the simple fact they touched it could have it thrown out.

[Dee]

If that kind of touching (if he even touched it at all, which is not even clear from the movies) would change the configuration of the wing in any way, the whole damn thing should fall apart the first time that car hits a curb.
Yes, the FIA should investigate whether he tampered with it - but I find it a rather wild accusation.

I dont think people are saying he tampered with it. Its just a simple fact that it appears he touched it, at a time when no one is allowed to touch it. It's the breech of a very clear rule.

Exactly, and it is a easy out if they have a good enough lawyer.

The scrutineering did not follow the correct procedure.

No, it is not easy to get out of it. Merc would have to prove that it could have been altered without tools.

[bonjon1979]

I dont think people are saying he tampered with it. Its just a simple fact that it appears he touched it, at a time when no one is allowed to touch it. It's the breech of a very clear rule.

Exactly, and it is a easy out if they have a good enough lawyer.

The scrutineering did not follow the correct procedure.

No, it is not easy to get out of it. Merc would have to prove that it could have been altered without tools.

So if someone stood on a wing and broke it?

[Dee]

It is not hard to understand.


If there is a court case and it is found that the weapon of a murder suspect was tampered by agents of the prosecution or police, then the murder weapon would not be able to be added as evidence in the court.

I should not have to explain something so simple

You are being intentionally obtuse.

How do you find that something was tampered with?

You have an expert come in and give testimony, in your case, an expert on guns

Jesus, seriously, even after explained, you still don't get it.

There would be no expert as the gun would not be allowed to be offered as evidence. It would have to be removed.

It doesn't matter what the tampering, but the simple fact they touched it could have it thrown out.

Only because there is prescendent of experts saying that one person holding a gun can be capable of tampering with it, that is why those cases can be thrown out.

Merc have to prove why something that needs specific tools to set up can be altered by Max in 1 second of touch (if he did touch at all)

[DChemTech]

and if he tampered with a part then failed testing? His direct competitior for the WDC?

That is pretty serious.

If that kind of touching (if he even touched it at all, which is not even clear from the movies) would change the configuration of the wing in any way, the whole damn thing should fall apart the first time that car hits a curb.
Yes, the FIA should investigate whether he tampered with it - but I find it a rather wild accusation.

I dont think people are saying he tampered with it. Its just a simple fact that it appears he touched it, at a time when no one is allowed to touch it. It's the breech of a very clear rule.

What it also does, is potentially gives Mercedes a get out clause as that part has been 'interfered' with by a competitor at a time even the team can't touch it.

In the video of the test being failed, is it just the corner of the gap that fails? or the whole length? again this looks like the exact spot Max touched it, which throws a lot more fuel on the fire.

I directly quoted a post that alleged possible tampering. But that was not the point.
The point is that there is precedent for someone touching stuff in parc ferme, more than once, and never being punished for this.

[Dee]

Exactly, and it is a easy out if they have a good enough lawyer.

The scrutineering did not follow the correct procedure.

No, it is not easy to get out of it. Merc would have to prove that it could have been altered without tools.

So if someone stood on a wing and broke it?

Numerous amounts of picture evidence of drivers and others standing on wings and not breaking them.

[west52keep64]

It is not hard to understand.


If there is a court case and it is found that the weapon of a murder suspect was tampered by agents of the prosecution or police, then the murder weapon would not be able to be added as evidence in the court.

I should not have to explain something so simple

The FIA is not a court of law. They are responsible for enforcing their own rules, as they see fit. There's no precedent for evidence becoming inadmissible as a result of potential tampering. The FIA will rule how they see fit on this subject, there's no default position of "it was touched therefore it is inadmissible".

[Mezger]

So when the cars are parked up after qualifying in Parc Ferme then no one can touch them ? Or just the team who's car it is ?

[nimoraca]

Its interesting that there is still no resolution to this. It should be relatively easy to repeat the test. If it fails the car is illegal. Verstappen's case is separate from this.

[f1jcw]

So when the cars are parked up after qualifying in Parc Ferme then no one can touch them ? Or just the team who's car it is ?

You can not touch even your own car.

[f1jcw]

It is not hard to understand.


If there is a court case and it is found that the weapon of a murder suspect was tampered by agents of the prosecution or police, then the murder weapon would not be able to be added as evidence in the court.

I should not have to explain something so simple

The FIA is not a court of law. They are responsible for enforcing their own rules, as they see fit. There's no precedent for evidence becoming inadmissible as a result of potential tampering. The FIA will rule how they see fit on this subject, there's no default position of "it was touched therefore it is inadmissible".

The above is your opinion and not fact. It still follows the same basic rules.

[f1jcw]

Its interesting that there is still no resolution to this. It should be relatively easy to repeat the test. If it fails the car is illegal. Verstappen's case is separate from this.

Not really, if it can be argued that by touching the part in question he has cast the entire procedue into doubt.

[Mezger]

So when the cars are parked up after qualifying in Parc Ferme then no one can touch them ? Or just the team who's car it is ?

You can not touch even your own car.

So do the cars remain in that position until FP2 today ?

[Dee]

Its interesting that there is still no resolution to this. It should be relatively easy to repeat the test. If it fails the car is illegal. Verstappen's case is separate from this.

Not really, if it can be argued that by touching the part in question he has cast the entire procedue into doubt.

"A competitor may not modify any part on the car or make changes to the set-up of the suspension whilst the car is being held under parc fermé conditions. In the case of a breach of this Article the relevant driver must start the race from the pit lane and follow the procedures laid out in Article 36.2.

In order that the scrutineers may be completely satisfied that no alterations have been made to the suspension systems or aerodynamic configuration of the car (with the exception of the front wing) whilst in pre-race parc fermé, it must be clear from physical inspection that changes cannot be made without the use of tools."

Not at all, the specific sport code quoted above blocks this from being a possibility.

Cars cannot be changed by hand, you need a tool to change something and that is a law in F1.

This is so a driver or a team tech cannot change something in the car before it's tested.

Mercedes are breaking the law if their car can be changed by hand