2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

[west52keep64]

It is not hard to understand.


If there is a court case and it is found that the weapon of a murder suspect was tampered by agents of the prosecution or police, then the murder weapon would not be able to be added as evidence in the court.

I should not have to explain something so simple

The FIA is not a court of law. They are responsible for enforcing their own rules, as they see fit. There's no precedent for evidence becoming inadmissible as a result of potential tampering. The FIA will rule how they see fit on this subject, there's no default position of "it was touched therefore it is inadmissible".

The above is your opinion and not fact. It still follows the same basic rules.

I do think you need to prepare yourself for the fact it's highly probable Hamilton will be disqualified from qualifying because his car failed the 85mm test, and he will need to start from the pit lane because the team will need to break parc ferme conditions to change the rear wing. Verstappen will most likely be reprimanded, or possibly receive a minor grid penalty if the FIA decide to make an example of him.

[langedweil]

Not even 24hrs ago I thought this was the slowest thread of the year .. that didn't age well.

Anyway, 2hrs and 14mins to FP2 .. so it wouldn't be for long I reckon.

[Tizz]

Now Mercedes is summoned to meet the stewards 10.30 local time. The saga continues

[f1jcw]

So when the cars are parked up after qualifying in Parc Ferme then no one can touch them ? Or just the team who's car it is ?

You can not touch even your own car.

So do the cars remain in that position until FP2 today ?

any touching by team mechanics would need to be done by request.

[TwanV]

Calls have to be made.. In essence wat happened here is Mercedes either deliberately or accidentally raced with an off spec car ; this will not make FOM very happy, as the title fight could be over too soon assuming a dsq is necessary. So the FIA/Mercedes/FOM is stalling for time to find a (legal) compromise to allow the show to go on. My guess is they will try to punish Max for this with a 5 place grid drop for the main race same as Lewis due to touchgate. Though they have no choice but to let Lewis start from the back for the sprint race for Parc Fermé breach for the rear wing infringement or indeed the FIA might as well disband and let FOM "enforce" the rules.

[Tvetovnato]

Fabrega reports that Mercedes will be at the stewards office at 10.30 local time.

[west52keep64]

2.5.1 Inside the Parc Fermé, only the officials assigned may
enter. No operation, checking, tuning or repair is allowed
unless authorised by the same officials or by the applicable
regulations.

This is the article of the sporting code in question. Verstappen is not answering to "sabotage". They will be assessing if he was "checking" the cars.

[Mezger]

You can not touch even your own car.

So do the cars remain in that position until FP2 today ?

any touching by team mechanics would need to be done by request.

Ok I understand that but it comes down to the 'touching' part.

If the cars have to be moved in any way then the car has been touched.

Is there a gray area in this respect ?

[west52keep64]

So do the cars remain in that position until FP2 today ?

any touching by team mechanics would need to be done by request.

Ok I understand that but it comes down to the 'touching' part.

If the cars have to be moved in any way then the car has been touched.

Is there a gray area in this respect ?

No, because the rules don't state there's "no touching". This is a misconception being spread for some reason.

The rules are simply this:

2.5.1 Inside the Parc Fermé, only the officials assigned may
enter. No operation, checking, tuning or repair is allowed
unless authorised by the same officials or by the applicable
regulations.

[Magicsenna_41]

So you can race with an illegal car, but if someone violates parc ferme rules i.e. touches your car, then it nullifies everything? I don't think so.

Yes of course you can race w/ illegal car and nothing will change the race result.
See Ferrari 2019 and may be they cheated the years before as well.

[bigblue]

In that case Max was "checking". We all know that what Max did is 99.9% likely to have made no difference. But he really shouldn't have done it. Merc will argue the 0.1% and tampering. So, it's all in the hands and opinion of the stewards (whom Max is seeing right now, I think). Arguing it bckwards and forwards and round and round here is pointless. Let's wait and see what they come up with. And then start arguing about that

[Mezger]

any touching by team mechanics would need to be done by request.

Ok I understand that but it comes down to the 'touching' part.

If the cars have to be moved in any way then the car has been touched.

Is there a gray area in this respect ?

No, because the rules don't state there's "no touching". This is a misconception being spread for some reason.

The rules are simply this:

2.5.1 Inside the Parc Fermé, only the officials assigned may
enter. No operation, checking, tuning or repair is allowed
unless authorised by the same officials or by the applicable
regulations.

Not trying to argue with you at all, just pulling this all thing apart.

Teams love to read the rules as they see fit.

The phrase above about 'checking' could be used to penalise Max, but if I look at a tyre to 'check' if it's flat have I broken a parc ferme rule.

I believe that Max did nothing wrong except maybe raise awareness about something that may be illegal.

[Mr.S]

any touching by team mechanics would need to be done by request.

Ok I understand that but it comes down to the 'touching' part.

If the cars have to be moved in any way then the car has been touched.

Is there a gray area in this respect ?

No, because the rules don't state there's "no touching". This is a misconception being spread for some reason.

The rules are simply this:

2.5.1 Inside the Parc Fermé, only the officials assigned may
enter. No operation, checking, tuning or repair is allowed
unless authorised by the same officials or by the applicable
regulations.

You can touch/push the car. I guess changing/tuning/repair isn't allowed or inspection physically (it has to have enough physical contact). Tomorrow is a driver touches his nose of the car, he doesn't fall into this clause. People stand on their car even - Let us no go over-board.

Verstappen will get a reprimand @ best for this - A very minor grid penalty (2/3 place) if FIA decide to be insanely biased & severe to favour Hamilton/Mercedes.

Mercedes/Hamilton though are surely going to start from the pit-lane due to an illegal rear wing which has to be changed. So how many places an Lewis make up? Maybe he goes to P9-P10 odd from the back behind the Mclarens & Ferrari. Then gets a 5 place penalty & starts 14-15th. Realistically without rain or changing conditions, he can finish P7-P8 types of @ best P4-P5 if Mercedes shows crazy race pace.

Verstappen can get 25 + 3 (Sprint) - 28 points (Leaving fastest lap). This is a race where Verstappen can me up 15-20 points & go to Saudi with a 35-40 point lead which will be tough to make up in 3 races - 3/4th position in the last 3 races would be enough. If Lewis finishes P8/P9, then the advantage becomes 19 + 25/26 = 45 odd. Almost insurmountable. He can wrap up the title in Qatar by having 2 numbers of P3 finishes (Behind Lewis & Bottas).

This penalty will be crucial for the world title & will aggravate Hamilton's 5 place ICE penalty !

[pantherxxx]

"A competitor may not modify any part on the car or make changes to the set-up of the suspension whilst the car is being held under parc fermé conditions. In the case of a breach of this Article the relevant driver must start the race from the pit lane and follow the procedures laid out in Article 36.2.
In order that the scrutineers may be completely satisfied that no alterations have been made to the suspension systems or aerodynamic configuration of the car (with the exception of the front wing) whilst in pre-race parc fermé, it must be clear from physical inspection that changes cannot be made without the use of tools."

So from this, I think this kills the rumors that FIA might let Merc get away with it due to Verstappen possibly altering/sabotaging the setup. Merc would still have been in breach of Parc Ferme if it would've been possible for Verstappen to change the setting. It would actually be more of a scandal, opening up the question whether or not Merc has a wing-setup that can be altered by hand. It might also be why the stewards want the whole wing removed for inspection, so they can check if alterations can be made by hand (= equally as much or even more or of a breach of parc fermé).

It looks like Verstappen's call is simply a technicality for which Verstappen will receive a slap on the wrist, but is not to be taken into account into the decision. Maybe they simply want to know if the wing moved when he touched it. Both outcomes are equally bad news for Merc.

[kistigun]

Verstappen back from stuarts after 15 minutes. "Can't say nothing about it at the moment, let's wait and see"



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