2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[nacho]

Was there a straight line speed difference between Bottas and Hamilton?

Okay answering to myself, the max speed on speed traps was 2-12 km/h larger for Hamilton depending on the speed trap. Don't know how to find what it was on average and what it was on free air at same fuel loads.

[NathanOlder]

Bottas engines were used as real world testing in the free practice sessions as well as in the race.
They got a better read on the damage cycle profile.
But again i think people are overstating the advantage.
Hamilton did not fly by the Redbulls like they were not there. He had to work hard to pass Perez and also to pass Max.
If we recall Max in COTA who was stuck on hamilton's gearbox all day before the undercut, it is possible to have a massive speed advantage with the right setup.

Here at brazil we were seeing 3 tenths advantage to redbull alone in sector 2. So it made sense that the other 2 sectors would have been less top speed for them.

Anyhow i await the video of Max's onboard and i hope Toto is mercilless and asks for FIA to look at it. I know yhe FIA did not investigate at all and that may be their loop hole. But i think their bring the sport into disrepute for failing their duties at a Grand Prix.
But as Toto says the gloves are off. If he can grt Max DQ with 2 black flags he should. Or even a 5 second penalty we will take that.

RedBull were not quicker in S2! The only time it was 3 tenths quicker was when Lewis was within 1 second of Max. In qualy when all things were equal, Mercedes were 2 tenths faster than RedBull in sector 2.

[NathanOlder]

No point at all protesting as no resulting action will favour Merc or Lewis. Worst case would be points on Ves licence, which is meaningless by it's self.
Nothing they now do would be of benefit except a grid drop next race, and we all know that will not happen as the race is over now and they cannot penalise the incident as it was not investigated and RBR given notification

If they are allowed to protest with new evidence (Max's onboard) and it goes in their favour, Max would likely recieve a 5 second penalty, this would promote Bottas to P2. So they have 3 points to gain against Max, and a 6 point swing in the WCC

[Marty_Y]

https://www.racefans.net/2021/11/15/cou ... ton-clash/

Could Mercedes use missing Verstappen video to demand review of Hamilton clash?
2021 Sao Paulo Grand PrixPosted on
15th November 2021, 14:04 | Written by Keith Collantine

[dans79]

https://www.racefans.net/2021/11/15/cou ... ton-clash/

Could Mercedes use missing Verstappen video to demand review of Hamilton clash?
2021 Sao Paulo Grand PrixPosted on
15th November 2021, 14:04 | Written by Keith Collantine

This is pure amerature hour, how can the stewards not have access to every possible camera, it's 2021, not 1991!

Comments made by FIA Formula 1 race director Michael Masi seemed to offer Mercedes a glimmer of hope. Masi confirmed the stewards did not have access to a potentially significant piece of evidence at the time they decided not to investigate the incident. The stewards could only view the same television pictures broadcast on the world feed.

[Marty_Y]

https://www.racefans.net/2021/11/15/cou ... ton-clash/

Could Mercedes use missing Verstappen video to demand review of Hamilton clash?
2021 Sao Paulo Grand PrixPosted on
15th November 2021, 14:04 | Written by Keith Collantine

This is pure amerature hour, how can the stewards not have access to every possible camera, it's 2021, not 1991!

Comments made by FIA Formula 1 race director Michael Masi seemed to offer Mercedes a glimmer of hope. Masi confirmed the stewards did not have access to a potentially significant piece of evidence at the time they decided not to investigate the incident. The stewards could only view the same television pictures broadcast on the world feed.

It is baffling isn't it?

Although multiple onboard camera views are captured from cars, only one is transmitted live at a time. Verstappen’s view switched from forward-facing to rearward-facing just before Hamilton pulled out to overtake him.

Therefore the forward-facing onboard video from Verstappen’s car was not broadcast and was not seen by the stewards at the time they decided against investigating the incident. This is significant because, assuming the video later emerges, it potentially opens the door for Mercedes demand they review the incident

I didn't know this, I assumed that more was transmitted but just selectively broadcasted.

It brings the process into question, how can a judgement be made without all the relevant information?

[dans79]

It is baffling isn't it?

Although multiple onboard camera views are captured from cars, only one is transmitted live at a time. Verstappen’s view switched from forward-facing to rearward-facing just before Hamilton pulled out to overtake him.

Therefore the forward-facing onboard video from Verstappen’s car was not broadcast and was not seen by the stewards at the time they decided against investigating the incident. This is significant because, assuming the video later emerges, it potentially opens the door for Mercedes demand they review the incident

I didn't know this, I assumed that more was transmitted but just selectively broadcasted.

It brings the process into question, how can a judgement be made without all the relevant information?

That wording is kind of ambiguous, are they trying to imply that only one feed is being transmitted from the car, or are the talking about world broadcast!

[Marty_Y]

It is baffling isn't it?

Although multiple onboard camera views are captured from cars, only one is transmitted live at a time. Verstappen’s view switched from forward-facing to rearward-facing just before Hamilton pulled out to overtake him.

Therefore the forward-facing onboard video from Verstappen’s car was not broadcast and was not seen by the stewards at the time they decided against investigating the incident. This is significant because, assuming the video later emerges, it potentially opens the door for Mercedes demand they review the incident

I didn't know this, I assumed that more was transmitted but just selectively broadcasted.

It brings the process into question, how can a judgement be made without all the relevant information?

That wording is kind of ambiguous, are they trying to imply that only one feed is being transmitted from the car, or are the talking about world broadcast!

I assumed they meant that only one feed is being transmitted live from the car at any one time, which I wasn't aware of.

[Big Tea]

No point at all protesting as no resulting action will favour Merc or Lewis. Worst case would be points on Ves licence, which is meaningless by it's self.
Nothing they now do would be of benefit except a grid drop next race, and we all know that will not happen as the race is over now and they cannot penalise the incident as it was not investigated and RBR given notification

If they are allowed to protest with new evidence (Max's onboard) and it goes in their favour, Max would likely recieve a 5 second penalty, this would promote Bottas to P2. So they have 3 points to gain against Max, and a 6 point swing in the WCC

Are they not legally bound to notify the team and driver of proposed action within a set time (2 hrs after race end??) and without this no action can be taken as part of the race, and only actions on 'part of race' can count toward penalties?

I may be wrong here, I usually am.

[NathanOlder]

No point at all protesting as no resulting action will favour Merc or Lewis. Worst case would be points on Ves licence, which is meaningless by it's self.
Nothing they now do would be of benefit except a grid drop next race, and we all know that will not happen as the race is over now and they cannot penalise the incident as it was not investigated and RBR given notification

If they are allowed to protest with new evidence (Max's onboard) and it goes in their favour, Max would likely recieve a 5 second penalty, this would promote Bottas to P2. So they have 3 points to gain against Max, and a 6 point swing in the WCC

Are they not legally bound to notify the team and driver of proposed action within a set time (2 hrs after race end??) and without this no action can be taken as part of the race, and only actions on 'part of race' can count toward penalties?

I may be wrong here, I usually am.

Not sure on this one to be honest. Especially with crucial evidence not being available.

[Jolle]

If they are allowed to protest with new evidence (Max's onboard) and it goes in their favour, Max would likely recieve a 5 second penalty, this would promote Bottas to P2. So they have 3 points to gain against Max, and a 6 point swing in the WCC

Are they not legally bound to notify the team and driver of proposed action within a set time (2 hrs after race end??) and without this no action can be taken as part of the race, and only actions on 'part of race' can count toward penalties?

I may be wrong here, I usually am.

Not sure on this one to be honest. Especially with crucial evidence not being available.

The bandwidth isn’t unlimited, and all mobile, so not that strange to cut some corners (do the camera switching on the car instead of feeding all the cams).

Apart from that, the cameras are from the FOM, just like the ones at the side of the track and are relative free where to place them. The FIA has their own circuit of cameras, overviewing the whole track. The only FIA mandated cam on the car is the high speed facing the driver (which would be sufficient in this case), and only accessible physically.

[mstar]

Would it surprise anyone if Maxs on board camara coverage goes "corrupt" or missing?
But i think emrc have every right to ask for a review IF the new evidence shows max turn into lewis. As 5 seconds gives Bottas 2nd place.

Expect Albon out on simulator showing how max couldn't move the steering wheel into the corner and accidentally went wide.

[Marty_Y]

On the subject of inconsistent penalties and fines, did Charles Leclerc receive the same punishment as Hamilton for his seat belt infringement?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/jolyon-pa ... -seatbelt/

Palmer blasts Leclerc for driving without seatbelt
Date published: August 18 2020 - Jamie Woodhouse

[Manoah2u]

15 is a good difference yes but let's be fair here, that was measured WITH DRS and a slipstream / tow, so it's a rather unfair picture. It doesn't mean Merc is 15 kph faster by all of their own.

According to AMuS, these 15km/h are WITHOUT DRS for both.
I've seen pictures when Hamilton used DRS, and his trap speed was 35km/h higher.
Its not me who claims these figures its on AMUS site.
Why vote negative the post for citing the facts?!

don't ask me why, i did not downvote you, so don't accuse me ok? thanks

[siskue2005]

15 is a good difference yes but let's be fair here, that was measured WITH DRS and a slipstream / tow, so it's a rather unfair picture. It doesn't mean Merc is 15 kph faster by all of their own.

According to AMuS, these 15km/h are WITHOUT DRS for both.
I've seen pictures when Hamilton used DRS, and his trap speed was 35km/h higher.
Its not me who claims these figures its on AMUS site.
Why vote negative the post for citing the facts?!

please post link to the article