2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Gillian wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:02 pm
Wouter wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:12 pm
Max took a moment yesterday to chat with the marshall waving the double yellow flag. :)
....
Just want to say thank you for posting a lot off stuff Wouter. I don't use any social media so I would not see these things otherwise.
You're welcome Gillian and thank you too.
The Power of Honda!

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:12 pm
Max took a moment yesterday to chat with the marshall waving the double yellow flag. :)

[ALIGN=center]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEygvKqaAAA ... name=small
Yeah, It was nice of the Marshals to organise a meet with Max, and nice of Max to take the time. I wonder if Horner went and said sorry in person.
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basti313
basti313
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:27 pm
Jambier wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:14 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:03 pm


So Mercedes can only win the WDC in the final round, no sooner! yet you say they killed the championship? Bit much don't you think?
I mean "killed" because I expected a close fight for the last 4 races, and this is not what is happening.

There is a huge gap in performance, has there was in previous years with Red Bull only grabing victories on Mercedes failures or weakness.

So I expect Mercedes to dominate all races, doesn't mean that a surprise can' t happen but I don't see any capability to match their pace
I think it’s the complete opposite to what you claimed. I think it’s alive! they have revived the championship completely. I don’t know anybody who said it was “alive” after Mexico, especially the DSQ in Brazil. MCS and Lewis have kept it alivetill the end now. Everyone thought it was over and dead after Mexico and USA with the DSQ in Brazil. Why do I get the feeling you might not have declared it “dead” then?

If they had the points lead at this stage, it would be a different story, then I would agree, championship over slightly prematurely, still wouldn’t really be ‘dead’ though, there was a finale guaranteed in Abu Dhabi, down to the wire, without incidents . But right now it’s a points lead on one side, vs better performing package and team at the moment. It’s still open.
Everyone? Just some Ham fans calles it off after the DSQ. Every realistic spectator knew that it was only over if we do not see Ham on the podium on Sunday.

The rest of the season looks a bit like 2006 to me. Merc has the car to pull two easy 1-2 in the last two races. Now Bot does not even play a role, but if the engine (spICE) blows up we have a Schumacher vs. Fonso situation.With the changes to Abu I can see two power hungry tracks coming. It is all to lose for Merc now....but given their advantage they need to screw up massively to lose it.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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basti313 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:23 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:27 pm
Jambier wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:14 pm


I mean "killed" because I expected a close fight for the last 4 races, and this is not what is happening.

There is a huge gap in performance, has there was in previous years with Red Bull only grabing victories on Mercedes failures or weakness.

So I expect Mercedes to dominate all races, doesn't mean that a surprise can' t happen but I don't see any capability to match their pace
I think it’s the complete opposite to what you claimed. I think it’s alive! they have revived the championship completely. I don’t know anybody who said it was “alive” after Mexico, especially the DSQ in Brazil. MCS and Lewis have kept it alivetill the end now. Everyone thought it was over and dead after Mexico and USA with the DSQ in Brazil. Why do I get the feeling you might not have declared it “dead” then?

If they had the points lead at this stage, it would be a different story, then I would agree, championship over slightly prematurely, still wouldn’t really be ‘dead’ though, there was a finale guaranteed in Abu Dhabi, down to the wire, without incidents . But right now it’s a points lead on one side, vs better performing package and team at the moment. It’s still open.
Everyone? Just some Ham fans calles it off after the DSQ. Every realistic spectator knew that it was only over if we do not see Ham on the podium on Sunday.

The rest of the season looks a bit like 2006 to me. Merc has the car to pull two easy 1-2 in the last two races. Now Bot does not even play a role, but if the engine (spICE) blows up we have a Schumacher vs. Fonso situation.With the changes to Abu I can see two power hungry tracks coming. It is all to lose for Merc now....but given their advantage they need to screw up massively to lose it.

Only ham fans? :Maybe max fans have this perception, if you actually listened to people outside of that group, such as commentators, they all shared similar sentiments. But I guess they’re all ham fans.

It could be like 2006, it is a season with similar parallels. But like I said, the championship is alive, no one can call it now, anything can happen and nothing is certain. Most people, including the bookies, favoured max for the title after Mexico. It’s all wide open and all to play for.

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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basti313 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:23 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:27 pm
Jambier wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:14 pm


I mean "killed" because I expected a close fight for the last 4 races, and this is not what is happening.

There is a huge gap in performance, has there was in previous years with Red Bull only grabing victories on Mercedes failures or weakness.

So I expect Mercedes to dominate all races, doesn't mean that a surprise can' t happen but I don't see any capability to match their pace
I think it’s the complete opposite to what you claimed. I think it’s alive! they have revived the championship completely. I don’t know anybody who said it was “alive” after Mexico, especially the DSQ in Brazil. MCS and Lewis have kept it alivetill the end now. Everyone thought it was over and dead after Mexico and USA with the DSQ in Brazil. Why do I get the feeling you might not have declared it “dead” then?

If they had the points lead at this stage, it would be a different story, then I would agree, championship over slightly prematurely, still wouldn’t really be ‘dead’ though, there was a finale guaranteed in Abu Dhabi, down to the wire, without incidents . But right now it’s a points lead on one side, vs better performing package and team at the moment. It’s still open.
Everyone? Just some Ham fans calles it off after the DSQ. Every realistic spectator knew that it was only over if we do not see Ham on the podium on Sunday.

The rest of the season looks a bit like 2006 to me. Merc has the car to pull two easy 1-2 in the last two races. Now Bot does not even play a role, but if the engine (spICE) blows up we have a Schumacher vs. Fonso situation.With the changes to Abu I can see two power hungry tracks coming. It is all to lose for Merc now....but given their advantage they need to screw up massively to lose it.
Anything can happen on a circuit like Jeddah. It reminds me of Baku and you know how Baku is everytime we race there. It's a very chaotic race with interruptions. The track surface tho makes it not really a street circuit, because I dont think they go through sections where it's actual public roads, so no crossing or white lines of public roads. So in that regard it's a full-blown GP circuit, but I agree it feels very street course like.

basti313
basti313
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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WaikeCU wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:43 pm
basti313 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:23 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:27 pm


I think it’s the complete opposite to what you claimed. I think it’s alive! they have revived the championship completely. I don’t know anybody who said it was “alive” after Mexico, especially the DSQ in Brazil. MCS and Lewis have kept it alivetill the end now. Everyone thought it was over and dead after Mexico and USA with the DSQ in Brazil. Why do I get the feeling you might not have declared it “dead” then?

If they had the points lead at this stage, it would be a different story, then I would agree, championship over slightly prematurely, still wouldn’t really be ‘dead’ though, there was a finale guaranteed in Abu Dhabi, down to the wire, without incidents . But right now it’s a points lead on one side, vs better performing package and team at the moment. It’s still open.
Everyone? Just some Ham fans calles it off after the DSQ. Every realistic spectator knew that it was only over if we do not see Ham on the podium on Sunday.

The rest of the season looks a bit like 2006 to me. Merc has the car to pull two easy 1-2 in the last two races. Now Bot does not even play a role, but if the engine (spICE) blows up we have a Schumacher vs. Fonso situation.With the changes to Abu I can see two power hungry tracks coming. It is all to lose for Merc now....but given their advantage they need to screw up massively to lose it.
Anything can happen on a circuit like Jeddah. It reminds me of Baku and you know how Baku is everytime we race there. It's a very chaotic race with interruptions. The track surface tho makes it not really a street circuit, because I dont think they go through sections where it's actual public roads, so no crossing or white lines of public roads. So in that regard it's a full-blown GP circuit, but I agree it feels very street course like.
Because you know the track surface in Saudi?...aha...

Honestly...it is hard to get this turn here into the RedBull team thread. No spectacle to come from them and there is no reason visible once Merc throws back in the good engine why we should see anything else but Max fans here all weekend.


Last question here...will we see finally a race without the rear wing breaking for RedBull?

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etusch
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Gillian wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:30 am
etusch wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:20 am
max_speed wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:08 am
Redbull can not win from here. Baku and silverstone costed them championship. They somehow could not capitalize fully.
If we have a conlusion in our mind then why we are watching races ? These up and downs are happening from start of season for both teams and can turn around again. Still everything is open
Well I have watched every single race since I was about 6 years old and I'm not a teenager, nor in my twenties or... I remember multiple seasons where the conclusion was pretty clear before even half the season was done...

It was pretty close most of the season but it's evident the last few reasons the gap between Red Bull and Mercedes has increased. I know some will think things like it's about the track, setup, temperatures etc and if you want to believe that it's okay.

For me personally there is nothing Red Bull could have done to win any of Russia, Turkey, Brazil or Qatar. Well done by Hamilton for sure, he got everything out of it last few races.

But the gap has opened up. Mercedes has 3 to 5 tenths in the qualifying, depending on what engine/engine mode they opt to use. I think in the race it's a bit closer, but Mercedes is slightly faster and easier on the tires. Above all the Mercedes looks nicely balanced, where earlier this season it looked a bit off.

At this point I don't see Hamilton making any silly mistakes like he did earlier. He knows he has the better car now and he is focussed to get it done.
Ham is open to make mistakes. For example if team would allow him he would go longer stint and maybe end up with puncture. If he has faster car he didn't feel pressure.
they were faster at Turkey too and even bottas faster than Redbull but then 2 races Redbull won. one of them with big gap. If Abu dhabi match Redbull's car more and with a bit more power from Honda while Mercedes engine is not it's best performance...

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Red Bull will be fine, Mercedes was too strong in Qatar, I didn't think Hamilton would have that much pace, it's downright impressive. Jeddah will require less extreme downforce package than Qatar, I'd say Spa level rear wing. Qatar shifts the balance more towards carrying speed through esses, and less on exit traction. If I had to describe the track, it would be high speed needle threading. The corners are very similar to the first and last sector of COTA and sector 2 of Mexico. A low speed chicken at the start of the lap is the only low speed corner, everything else is just carrying speed and getting that nose working on entry. The tire wear is slightly more rear biased, this circuit is also a lot of fun to drive, it's even faster overall than Qatar. Tire wear is pretty even but like said pretty even overall. I have no clue how the kerbs are in real life and if abusing them can damage the car or the tires. The walls will definitely damage either or, and you have to get close to that wall to carry the speed.

The cars that carry more speed through esses and have a good front end will have a nice advantage. Perhaps RBR can run less rear wing and have better balance on the car since they won't have to go extreme on downforce.
Saishū kōnā

godzi
godzi
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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To all those who are already lamenting the loss of the title, you are only supporters of the victory, keep in mind that Red Bull and Honda will react! Don't think they will watch Mercedes steal the title! You honestly think that between the usa and quatar Mercedes has gone from turtle to racehorse.... Or the opposite for Red Bull Honda, of course not..... Remember that, there will be more surprises, and not small ones!

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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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godzi wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:57 pm
To all those who are already lamenting the loss of the title, you are only supporters of the victory, keep in mind that Red Bull and Honda will react! Don't think they will watch Mercedes steal the title! You honestly think that between the usa and quatar Mercedes has gone from turtle to racehorse.... Or the opposite for Red Bull Honda, of course not..... Remember that, there will be more surprises, and not small ones!
Do Red Bull want supporters who are only there if they win? Red Bull supporters are supposed to support Red Bull, not the winner (As for all teams)
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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west52keep64
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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This is far from over. The Verstappen + Red Bull combination has been the best of the season so far and has won the most races, Hamilton can only equal the number of race wins now. Verstappen can win the title in the next race, Hamilton cannot. Hamilton has not won more than 2 races in a row so far this season, he's just won the last two and needs to win the next two. Mercedes are being pushed in to making more mistakes than ever, just look at Bottas in the last race, and look at how badly the second race at Bahrain went last year.

The performance has swung between these two teams all season, there's no reason to believe it won't continue to do so. There's everything to play for in this championship, it is absolutely not over.

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yener
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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west52keep64 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:43 pm
This is far from over. The Verstappen + Red Bull combination has been the best of the season so far and has won the most races, Hamilton can only equal the number of race wins now. Verstappen can win the title in the next race, Hamilton cannot. Hamilton has not won more than 2 races in a row so far this season, he's just won the last two and needs to win the next two. Mercedes are being pushed in to making more mistakes than ever, just look at Bottas in the last race, and look at how badly the second race at Bahrain went last year.

The performance has swung between these two teams all season, there's no reason to believe it won't continue to do so. There's everything to play for in this championship, it is absolutely not over.
Well, Mercedes made the RedBull car look like a Daitsu at the last 2 races. They found really a lot of speed. Lets keep in mind that Lewis didnt use the new engine in qatar.

Im afraid its over
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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:15 pm
godzi wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:57 pm
To all those who are already lamenting the loss of the title, you are only supporters of the victory, keep in mind that Red Bull and Honda will react! Don't think they will watch Mercedes steal the title! You honestly think that between the usa and quatar Mercedes has gone from turtle to racehorse.... Or the opposite for Red Bull Honda, of course not..... Remember that, there will be more surprises, and not small ones!
Do Red Bull want supporters who are only there if they win? Red Bull supporters are supposed to support Red Bull, not the winner (As for all teams)
Win or lose doesn't matter, I just like how this team carries itself. That said, everything is still to play for, it ain't over till it's over.
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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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yener wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:55 pm
west52keep64 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:43 pm
This is far from over. The Verstappen + Red Bull combination has been the best of the season so far and has won the most races, Hamilton can only equal the number of race wins now. Verstappen can win the title in the next race, Hamilton cannot. Hamilton has not won more than 2 races in a row so far this season, he's just won the last two and needs to win the next two. Mercedes are being pushed in to making more mistakes than ever, just look at Bottas in the last race, and look at how badly the second race at Bahrain went last year.

The performance has swung between these two teams all season, there's no reason to believe it won't continue to do so. There's everything to play for in this championship, it is absolutely not over.
Well, Mercedes made the RedBull car look like a Daitsu at the last 2 races. They found really a lot of speed. Lets keep in mind that Lewis didnt use the new engine in qatar.

Im afraid its over
Yeah Mercedes took a big step in performance, nothing that could come from just setup. Something else is going on, but nothing that we'll ever find out about. Call it a gut feeling. However it's not over, Verstappen just has to outscore Hamilton one more time. Honda isn't going to take this lying down, and neither will RBR, so I expect them to pull out all the stops either in Jeddah or Abu Dhabi.

Also without that stop Hamilton was ~8 seconds ahead, I don't think he would have widened the gap, in fact on the medium Verstappen was faster than Hamilton. Let's be generous and say 9 seconds over 57 laps and Verstappen starting behind traffic. Granted he was managing the gap, still the average pace gap was like two tenths. 2 tenths on race pace can at least be clawed back if conditions swing in RBR's favor.
Last edited by godlameroso on Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:56 pm

Win or lose doesn't matter, I just like how this team carries itself.
Such as blaming an unpaid volunteer for the mistake made by their multi-millionaire star driver?

Can't say it impresses me much. :wink:
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