Tweak to red flag rules

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Stu
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Re: Tweak to red flag rules

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:07 am
What if… no tire change during a red flag.

You are in front, everybody pits and then there is a red flag.
Now you start from pole with shot tires. Not only unsafe (you’ll be a roadblock braking into turn one) but also fall back to last place when you do pit.

So, no changing tires is not the solution and even unsafe.
I agree with that wholeheartedly (it would just lead to different situations that were considered unfair.
Imagine….
Silverstone, LH has just made contact with MV, MV has crashed, but LH gets back to the pits and the red flag has already been ‘thrown’ when he gets there. Not allowed to change tyres, LH takes to the grid with a damaged wheel, which fails after restart the first time around copse. It’s just not safe; however at Imola, LH would be allowed to replace the front wing, but not his tyres.
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

Hoffman900
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Re: Tweak to red flag rules

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Or you can do what every American racing series does and the Red Flag freezes the field.

You can work on the car and change tires after the red flag is let up and cars circulate. Yeah, it’ll mean having to come in at the end of the formation lap, but that’s part of the deal.

Yes every driver / team on the grid has either benefitted or been hurt by it at one point or another, but it’s still bs.

ESPImperium
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Re: Tweak to red flag rules

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I had no issues with the red flag rules. Years ago, Monaco 2012? I had issues, however on reflection on safety issues I was and have been proven right to have changed my views on this. You need to be able to change tyres.

One thing I have issue is the 10 car length rule for the race start, that needs to be included for each and every race restart.

I will defend Massi and all the criticism he has had, he has the most difficult job of everyone involved in the race. he has to monitor 20 drivers and police them, also he has 10 team principles and another 10 sporting managers on the blower to him, plus he has to lease with the stewards and track marshalls in there. Im out there on my own on that one. He has made a few questionable calls in the past few years since Whitings passing, but I think for the whole part Massi has done a great job following on from Whiting. I like the cut of his jib, he is a racer, a person that has brought in some much needed fresh air to the sport from the Race Directors role.

bidong
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Re: Tweak to red flag rules

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I think the best way to deal with this is to allow teams to do a tire change to a fresher tire of the same compound. This will require drivers who have not made their stop to do another step even with a performance advantage on the restart. This should negate the "lucky" side of the red flag rules.

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dave kumar
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Re: Tweak to red flag rules

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bidong wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:18 am
I think the best way to deal with this is to allow teams to do a tire change to a fresher tire of the same compound. This will require drivers who have not made their stop to do another step even with a performance advantage on the restart. This should negate the "lucky" side of the red flag rules.
I like this suggestion but it was suggested earlier in the thread and I have to agree with Jolle below.
Jolle wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:36 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:34 pm
What if you can change tyres during red flag, but u can only replace the current tyre with the same compound. That way everyone will have fresh tyres, no complains of tyre damage.
Not everyone has those tires available. Just last race, everyone wants new tires then, even when they are 2 laps old.
May be the simplest thing to do is close the pits during VSC/ full safety car. It's pretty dangerous for the pit crews anyway when all the cars come diving in to the pits at the same time in these situations. Any reason to keep the pits open?
Formerly known as senna-toleman

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El Scorchio
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Re: Tweak to red flag rules

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dave kumar wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:55 am
bidong wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:18 am
I think the best way to deal with this is to allow teams to do a tire change to a fresher tire of the same compound. This will require drivers who have not made their stop to do another step even with a performance advantage on the restart. This should negate the "lucky" side of the red flag rules.
I like this suggestion but it was suggested earlier in the thread and I have to agree with Jolle below.
Jolle wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:36 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:34 pm
What if you can change tyres during red flag, but u can only replace the current tyre with the same compound. That way everyone will have fresh tyres, no complains of tyre damage.
Not everyone has those tires available. Just last race, everyone wants new tires then, even when they are 2 laps old.
May be the simplest thing to do is close the pits during VSC/ full safety car. It's pretty dangerous for the pit crews anyway when all the cars come diving in to the pits at the same time in these situations. Any reason to keep the pits open?
Several cars might have damage and/or punctures need to go in there.

Jolle
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Re: Tweak to red flag rules

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There is no solution to this problem. Someone always will benefit and someone’s race will be ruined.

It’s just one of those things.

No tire change:
Before the red flag: everyone pits except the leader. Red flag. The lead he has of 30 seconds (the pitstop) is gone and he has to pit while the whole field is on his tail, dropping him back to last.

With tire change:
Leader pits for new tires as first and drops back to fifth. Red flag, everyone new tires and now the leader is just 5 places of his original position and within a few seconds.

So. Tire changes during red flags are actually fairer then no tire changes.

Ennis
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Re: Tweak to red flag rules

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bidong wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:18 am
I think the best way to deal with this is to allow teams to do a tire change to a fresher tire of the same compound. This will require drivers who have not made their stop to do another step even with a performance advantage on the restart. This should negate the "lucky" side of the red flag rules.
In addition to the other points made around tyre availability, you still get some who will be lucky and some who will be unlucky. Let's use 30% of race distance as an example -

Car 1: Pitted 2 laps prior to red flag, plans to run to the end
Car 2: Was coming up to their pit window in 0-2laps, was waiting for the right gap to open up, planned to run to the end

Car 1 now has very fresh tyres, and thanks to the red flag has no longer lost the 20-25 seconds expected. Car 2 gets fresh tyres, but essentially needs to serve a drive through penalty at some point in the race, albeit they get some new tyres again.

Really - there is no possible way to do a red flag without winners and losers (same for safety car), unless you put everyone on exactly the same piece of track, in exactly the same condition, at exactly the same speed, with exactly the same gaps between the cars.