F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Sulman
Sulman
1
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:28 am

Re: F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post

jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:19 pm
Sulman wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:19 pm
My wife (an American) told me she was amazed the Vettel 'overtake award' wasn't some sponsor feature. It's coming, surely.
Pretty sure it was sponsored by crypto.com.
I meant a whole on-screen thing; like they do in Indycar ("the onboard camera rundown, sponsored by Honda"). It's a lot.

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
117
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:02 am

Re: F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post

Sulman wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:46 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:19 pm
Sulman wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:19 pm
My wife (an American) told me she was amazed the Vettel 'overtake award' wasn't some sponsor feature. It's coming, surely.
Pretty sure it was sponsored by crypto.com.
I meant a whole on-screen thing; like they do in Indycar ("the onboard camera rundown, sponsored by Honda"). It's a lot.
This. American sports everything is sponsored “this power play brought to you by…”

Edax
Edax
37
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:47 pm

Re: F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post

Stu wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:07 pm
I tend to agree with that, but I do wonder how ‘golden ages’ of the sport were perceived at the time (not just from a UK perspective - Mansell-mania, James Hunt - 1975 Brands Gp, Damon, etc) but as a general ‘thing’.
I am not sure what you mean with a “thing”.

For one it was much simpler. We only had one TV channel. National TV told you who won and who actually should have won and the newspaper confirmed it the next morning. No need to go debating it on a forum ;-).

I do think there was more respect for drivers. Of course some were pure evil ( which was mainly decided on the basis of nationality) but they were still F1 drivers, which equated to a demi-god status ( for a young kid anyway).

I am not sure whether the netflixisation necessarily is a bad thing. F1 used to be about a couple of badasses who risked their life for entertainment and glory.

With the rising budgets and commercialization, F1 imo has become much more protective and risk averse off and on track. And then I don’t mean in safety, because there we really don’t want to go back to those days, but the racing itself has become completely packed in rules and regulations like a commercial contract.

I think a bit of influence to safeguard the entertainment value is not that bad as long as it doesn’t result in f1 big brother. When they starting to vote drivers away at a campfire after the race they, yes they have gone too far. But for now I think it is fine.

notsofast
notsofast
2
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:56 am

Re: F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post

I don't see a lot of difference between this season and, say, 94 or 95. We finally had a competitive season, between Mercedes and Red Bull, and between Ferrari and McLaren. Of course there was harder driving, because there was something to be won. The past several seasons had a predictable outcome with a lot of races that were processional. (And people were complaining about that too.)

Sure, the Abu Dhabi race was unsatisfying, but so was Hungary. If Bottas hadn't gone bowling, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. If FIA can come up with ways to nullify situations that the average fan feels are unfair (like Hungary) then there would be no need to resort to mickey mouse solutions later on in the season just to please the average fan.

User avatar
Big Tea
88
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post

I think the big thing is that some one has to be punished for everything and nothing just happens. Everything becomes X Versus Y and someone should be 'hated' by one set of fans.
I think most who watch just want to see a good race whoever wins and the driver remain friends usually, it is just presented as a 'fight' rather than a contest or game
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

zeph
zeph
1
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:54 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post

I think some things are getting confused in this thread, it's not about "dirty" driving or anything. Not from Leclerc in Monza '19, nor Schuey in '94.

It's about Race Control increasingly making decisions based on what sells, rather than what's right. I mentioned Leclerc in '19 not because he did something bad or he didn't deserve to win, that's not the point. But RC clearly decided to let it slide because it was a Ferrari feel-good story, that was significant IMHO.

Based on the entire season, I think Verstappen deserves the championship, but he did not deserve to be gifted the final race in this way. If the rules had been followed, the SC would have lasted for at least another lap until every lapped car had unlapped, meaning the race would have finished under the SC thereby renewing HAM's lease on the title. If none of the cars had been allowed to overtake, Verstappen would have had to overtake five cars before reaching Hamilton, making it unlikely he'd be able to pass him before the finish.

The fact that RC allowed those five cars to unlap and then brought the SC in before the others got that opportunity is clearly to engineer a final lap "winner takes all" showdown.

User avatar
Scorpaguy
6
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:05 am

Re: F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post

Michael Masi: "Toto, it's called a motor race. We went car racing."
I think this quote has been a bit ignored. I also am a bit flummoxed as to where the big orange wave of defenders has been? Had the lappers remained in place, would the forum today be filled with as much vitriol...just reversed?

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
117
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:02 am

Re: F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post

Scorpaguy wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:42 pm
Michael Masi: "Toto, it's called a motor race. We went car racing."
I think this quote has been a bit ignored. I also am a bit flummoxed as to where the big orange wave of defenders has been? Had the lappers remained in place, would the forum today be filled with as much vitriol...just reversed?

The Race Director’s priority should be to 1) safety 2) the rules.

This is where people get mad. The Race Director should give zero thought to the show. If his decisions are influenced by entertainment, then he (or she) is putting their fingers on the scale of balanced sport.

notsofast
notsofast
2
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:56 am

Re: F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post

F1 should implement the green–white–checker finish. I'm guessing that this is what Masi was trying to simulate in Abu Dhabi. Liberty Media would probably be a proponent of such a rule change (and perhaps we as fans too). The problem is that F1 cars are fueled for the exact number of laps they need to drive. This can be fixed by requiring each car to carry, say, an additional 10kg of fuel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green%E2% ... ker_finish

User avatar
west52keep64
50
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:05 pm

Re: F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post

Hoffman900 wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:51 pm
Sulman wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:46 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:19 pm


Pretty sure it was sponsored by crypto.com.
I meant a whole on-screen thing; like they do in Indycar ("the onboard camera rundown, sponsored by Honda"). It's a lot.
This. American sports everything is sponsored “this power play brought to you by…”
I mean... we are kind of already there... "powered by AWS", "DHL Fastest Pit Stop Award" or the "DHL fastest lap"...

Edax
Edax
37
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:47 pm

Re: F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post

notsofast wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:25 pm
F1 should implement the green–white–checker finish. I'm guessing that this is what Masi was trying to simulate in Abu Dhabi. Liberty Media would probably be a proponent of such a rule change (and perhaps we as fans too). The problem is that F1 cars are fueled for the exact number of laps they need to drive. This can be fixed by requiring each car to carry, say, an additional 10kg of fuel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green%E2% ... ker_finish
I was thinking the same thing. It looked a lot like green white checkered in Nascar. Which I think would be good to introduce in F1. With a few kgs of additional fuel it should be doable. It wouldn’t change the outcome though as you still would end up with Ves on new tires behind Hamilton.

oT v1
oT v1
0
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 2:46 pm

Re: F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post

Edax wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:14 pm
notsofast wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:25 pm
F1 should implement the green–white–checker finish. I'm guessing that this is what Masi was trying to simulate in Abu Dhabi. Liberty Media would probably be a proponent of such a rule change (and perhaps we as fans too). The problem is that F1 cars are fueled for the exact number of laps they need to drive. This can be fixed by requiring each car to carry, say, an additional 10kg of fuel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green%E2% ... ker_finish
I was thinking the same thing. It looked a lot like green white checkered in Nascar. Which I think would be good to introduce in F1. With a few kgs of additional fuel it should be doable. It wouldn’t change the outcome though as you still would end up with Ves on new tires behind Hamilton.
And maybe 110kg less fuel for Spa?

It would have changed the ending if Merc knew there would be a green flag situation, the gamble was to stay out because it may end under SC and VES is too close for a free stop….but if it will definitely go green they pit for softs (then forcing VES to either stay out on older hards to keep track position or pit for similar tyres and stay behind).
The Power of Dreams

User avatar
Scorpaguy
6
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:05 am

Re: F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post

Scorpaguy wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:42 pm
Michael Masi: "Toto, it's called a motor race. We went car racing."
I think this quote has been a bit ignored. I also am a bit flummoxed as to where the big orange wave of defenders has been? Had the lappers remained in place, would the forum today be filled with as much vitriol...just reversed?
Interesting forum here...merely mentioning a quote by the RD and ruminating upon the lack of comments from a certain contingent (whilst neither taking a side nor even really caring) receives a downvote. Not that I mind the downvote, but would like to know why :wtf:

Edax
Edax
37
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:47 pm

Re: F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post

oT v1 wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:54 pm
Edax wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:14 pm
notsofast wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:25 pm
F1 should implement the green–white–checker finish. I'm guessing that this is what Masi was trying to simulate in Abu Dhabi. Liberty Media would probably be a proponent of such a rule change (and perhaps we as fans too). The problem is that F1 cars are fueled for the exact number of laps they need to drive. This can be fixed by requiring each car to carry, say, an additional 10kg of fuel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green%E2% ... ker_finish
I was thinking the same thing. It looked a lot like green white checkered in Nascar. Which I think would be good to introduce in F1. With a few kgs of additional fuel it should be doable. It wouldn’t change the outcome though as you still would end up with Ves on new tires behind Hamilton.
And maybe 110kg less fuel for Spa?

It would have changed the ending if Merc knew there would be a green flag situation, the gamble was to stay out because it may end under SC and VES is too close for a free stop….but if it will definitely go green they pit for softs (then forcing VES to either stay out on older hards to keep track position or pit for similar tyres and stay behind).
Didn’t think about that. But yes you’re right, indeed Merc would have likely have pitted, and Ves would have a fair chance of attacking on new softs or defending hards.

I would consider that issue solved.

User avatar
proteus
20
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:35 pm

Re: F1 in the age of "Reality TV"

Post

Everybody likes to forget that F1 started to go down right after 2002, 03 season. Privateers started to shrink, being unable to get proper results, and arrival of big car companies. Costs risen and field got smaller. Then there were constant rule changes, higher costs and limitations. It all boiled up in 2014 when Mercedes secured themself an advantage over its opposition which is lasting 8 seasons in a row and it might continue into the future.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows