2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Scalexf1 wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:10 am
It’s easy to look at the numbers and suggest the addition of ethanol will increase power, however it does not quite work like that.
The ethanol will burn hotter, increasing the combustion problems that are already evident with the current spec engines. Whoever can master this first will probably match their current performance levels.
I’m reminded by the quote in Beast (Ilmor 265E) about Honda struggling when they first got into Indy Car in 1994. They leaned on their F1 experience with NA engines and the V6 Turbos, but totally missed the mark in dealing with methanol. Their previous experience was dealing with high volatile bespoke gasoline in F1.

Mercedes (Ilmor staff) and Honda / RedBull have a lot of previous experience with alcohol based fuels now, so I suspect they’ll (as always) be a step ahead. Remember, Honda learned a lot about alcohol fuels from partnering with Ilmor for almost a decade before going it alone (presumably to save money).

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siskue2005
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ispano6 wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:56 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:06 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:32 pm
I get the sense that this is not the situation that Honda wanted to win under, you know the whole honour thing, but they will take it never the less.

The Bushido way of achieving victory was only through upholding honour. This is not just a samuraithing, organizations still use it as a guide. I can imagine Honda may contemplate saying next year to maks things right in their concience.
I'm sure many at Honda feel hard done by Mercedes. Should have been both championships really. Honda are already "staying" next year anyway.
For the person down voting this comment, you obviously don't realize Honda WAS trying hard to win both championships, and felt that they could have. Hungary and Silverstone was a major blow to that campaign, don't you get that?
It was not me, as I don't have downvoting privileges

But, why blame silverstone and hungary, just listen to what Horner was saying and which championship he prefers and (@5min 20 sec)


and at Silverstone the fact that Red Bull asked Perez to pit from 10th to take fastest lap from Hamilton says everything you need to know about which championship matters more to them this season.

So Honda may have been trying to win both, but the Redbull team were not!

Here are other quotes from Horner
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/102077/h ... title.html

mstar
mstar
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I think it was clear from the start this was always about the WDC and not the WCC. I lost count how many times perez played to help max and not always to help in the WCC.
I see no different next season.

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Of course, and don’t ever let anyone tell you anything else. We all only remember who won AND in which car they did it. Not even Vettel will know who won the WCC each year.

Nevertheless, is it so strange to believe Honda tried to win it, and that some heavy blows were dealt. Hungary alone. Strike like a bowling ball.

Plus Mercedes went down the 5/6 engines route. That will have hurt. I hope they will indeed really support onwards, it is needed.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

mstar
mstar
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:29 pm
Of course, and don’t ever let anyone tell you anything else. We all only remember who won AND in which car they did it. Not even Vettel will know who won the WCC each year.
Not if your a team member where you can get 10k+ bonus... if u win the big WCC and Win bonus's etc etc.
The WDC the team members get a small renumeration.

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ispano6
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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siskue2005 wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:32 pm
But, why blame silverstone and hungary, just listen to what Horner was saying and which championship he prefers and

and at Silverstone the fact that Red Bull asked Perez to pit from 10th to take fastest lap from Hamilton says everything you need to know about which championship matters more to them this season.

So Honda may have been trying to win both, but the Redbull team were not!

Here are other quotes from Horner
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/102077/h ... title.html
Why blame Silverstone and Hungary? These are the opinions of Honda personnel, that they lost approximately 40 points of constructors championship points in those two races. The priority was to win WDC, WCC is a bonus. Red Bull Honda would have also liked to win the WCC, especially Honda. Asaki, Tanabe, and Yamamoto have repeatedly said this... Though they would not sacrifice the WDC for the sake of the WCC. That much is a given. Both were attainable, Sergio could have earned good points in Hungary, and possibly in Abu Dhabi. Max for sure would have scored 36pts from t hose two races. The decision to retire Perez was a no brainer in light of the position Max was in.

Tzk
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ispano6 wrote:
Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:25 pm
The priority was to win WDC, WCC is a bonus.
Well, my guess is that RB expected Perez to struggle at least a bit with the car. So setting the WDC instead of the WCC as a target is actually a somewhat smart decision. Half way through the season it became quite clear at both Perez and Bottas couldn't perform like Ham/Ver did, so keeping the focus on the WDC was mostly a no-brainer for RB.

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west52keep64
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Tzk wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:44 am
Well, my guess is that RB expected Perez to struggle at least a bit with the car. So setting the WDC instead of the WCC as a target is actually a somewhat smart decision. Half way through the season it became quite clear at both Perez and Bottas couldn't perform like Ham/Ver did, so keeping the focus on the WDC was mostly a no-brainer for RB.
Yup agreed, but I guess the key difference is Perez was a pure number 2 driver. Bottas wasn't very compliant and didn't really do what Mercedes asked, whereas Perez went over and above to help Verstappen win the WDC. We probably haven't seen a driving pairing like this since Schumacher and Barrichello. Perez will quite literally sacrifice his own race result to ensure Verstappen wins the WDC, incredible.

Kingshark
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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mstar wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:25 pm
I think it was clear from the start this was always about the WDC and not the WCC. I lost count how many times perez played to help max and not always to help in the WCC.
I see no different next season.
I mean, look at Mercedes in Abu Dhabi. They won the constructors and yet the team's body language was like someone had died. They clearly did not care. All they wanted was for Lewis to win the title.

WDC will always be far more prestigious than WCC. The marketing power of having the reigning world champion on your team easily outweighs any financial benefit of WCC prize money.

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AtlasZX
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Kingshark wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:38 pm
mstar wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:25 pm
I think it was clear from the start this was always about the WDC and not the WCC. I lost count how many times perez played to help max and not always to help in the WCC.
I see no different next season.
I mean, look at Mercedes in Abu Dhabi. They won the constructors and yet the team's body language was like someone had died. They clearly did not care. All they wanted was for Lewis to win the title.

WDC will always be far more prestigious than WCC. The marketing power of having the reigning world champion on your team easily outweighs any financial benefit of WCC prize money.
Further more, winning the WCC might be interesting for Ferrari and Mercedes bcs they actually sell cars as their core business and having the official best car on the grid is good for their marketing strategies, but it's almost useless to Red Bull.

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siskue2005
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Kingshark wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:38 pm
mstar wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:25 pm
I think it was clear from the start this was always about the WDC and not the WCC. I lost count how many times perez played to help max and not always to help in the WCC.
I see no different next season.
I mean, look at Mercedes in Abu Dhabi. They won the constructors and yet the team's body language was like someone had died. They clearly did not care. All they wanted was for Lewis to win the title.

WDC will always be far more prestigious than WCC. The marketing power of having the reigning world champion on your team easily outweighs any financial benefit of WCC prize money.
The way they lost the WDC, anyone team would have the same reaction! that does not say anything about what anyone cared!

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Red Bull mindful about F1 rival’s 2022 development gains
By:
Jonathan Noble
Dec 31, 2021, 10:03 AM
Red Bull remains hopeful that its Formula 1 title push didn’t compromise its 2022 development – but says Ferrari ‘smashing’ it out of the park next season could prove it wrong.

The Milton Keynes-based team was locked in a tight fight with Mercedes until the final round of this year for both the drivers’ and constructors’ championship crowns – with honours being split between the two outfits.

But while Red Bull and Mercedes were kept on their toes to the end, other squads like Ferrari made a much earlier complete shift of resources to work on their 2022 challengers.

And that head start, with the new rules being in their infancy, could open the door for those teams that went early to enjoy an advantage from the off.

Red Bull team boss Christian Horner is optimistic that his squad got the balance between work on 2021 and 2022 right – but is equally aware that a final judgement on if its prospects did get hurt can only be made at the first race next year.

“When Ferrari turn up with the fastest car and smash us out of the park at the first race then you’ll have to say that it probably did [compromise us],” he said.

“But I think that we’ve all known that big regulation changes are coming for 2022 and we’ve applied our resource accordingly.

“I’m sure each team has done what they feel is right and it’s put pressure on the organisation, of course. But that’s where I think the team have been outstanding, because to keep a development rate on a new set of regulations and keep a focus on this year’s car has taken a monumental effort. The commitment shown by all of the team, throughout the team, has been phenomenal.

“But we will only see when we come back in a couple of months’ time, with completely new cars. They look different, they’re going to feel different, they’re going to drive differently - and who’s got it right, who’s got it wrong? It all starts again.”
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... s/7039555/
The Power of Honda!

Snorked
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Honda staying with Red Bull until the end of the hybrid regulations, Yamamoto moving to Red Bull.

https://racingnews365.com/exclusive-hon ... nd-of-2025

BlueCheetah66
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Snorked wrote:
Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:22 pm
Honda staying with Red Bull until the end of the hybrid regulations, Yamamoto moving to Red Bull.

https://racingnews365.com/exclusive-hon ... nd-of-2025
So it really is just the TAG Heuer branded Renault situation then. Weird that Honda are 'leaving' then. Surely they would just keep their name on the car if the manufacturing is barely changing

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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Thats the best news I have had this year

(Snorked https://racingnews365.com/exclusive-hon ... nd-of-2025)
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