Red Bull fights departure of aero chief Dan Fallows

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Ryar
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Red Bull fights departure of aero chief Dan Fallows

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https://racingnews365.com/red-bull-head ... ng-fallows

Red Bull head to court over departing Fallows
Red Bull's lawyers have headed to court in the UK, in a case involving Dan Fallows, with court documents from the hearing seen by RacingNews365.com.

The former Chief Aerodynamicist of Red Bull was announced in June 2021 as Aston Martin's new Technical Director for 2022, but Red Bull indicated that they would not be letting him depart without serving an enforced period of notice.

The background
Fallows received an offer from Aston Martin for 2022 and accepted it, with an indicated desired start date of January 1. However, according to Red Bull, his contract states that he has to serve a six-month notice period which can only be triggered on December 31, 2022 at the earliest.

This would mean Fallows wouldn't be able to join another team until July 1, 2023.
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lio007
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Ryar wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:51 pm
https://racingnews365.com/red-bull-head ... ng-fallows

Red Bull head to court over departing Fallows
Red Bull's lawyers have headed to court in the UK, in a case involving Dan Fallows, with court documents from the hearing seen by RacingNews365.com.

The former Chief Aerodynamicist of Red Bull was announced in June 2021 as Aston Martin's new Technical Director for 2022, but Red Bull indicated that they would not be letting him depart without serving an enforced period of notice.

The background
Fallows received an offer from Aston Martin for 2022 and accepted it, with an indicated desired start date of January 1. However, according to Red Bull, his contract states that he has to serve a six-month notice period which can only be triggered on December 31, 2022 at the earliest.

This would mean Fallows wouldn't be able to join another team until July 1, 2023.
Wow 1,5 years...that's quite a bit of time!
For sure AM won't be happy about that!
Would be interesting why they thought he could start that early.

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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Surely the courts will ask them to compromise on both sides.

I mean do RB really think Dan fallows suddenly shed all RB secrets and AM be ahead of RB?
There is for sure something more to this than meets the eye. Maybe Dan knows things which RB really don't want him to share very quickly? maybe some "borderline" stuff RB getting away with and they don't want this out?

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Tizz
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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mstar wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:26 pm
Surely the courts will ask them to compromise on both sides.

I mean do RB really think Dan fallows suddenly shed all RB secrets and AM be ahead of RB?
There is for sure something more to this than meets the eye. Maybe Dan knows things which RB really don't want him to share very quickly? maybe some "borderline" stuff RB getting away with and they don't want this out?
It does not necessarily need to be knowledge about the car. It might also be about the tooling or workflow regarding the development process of aero.

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lio007
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mstar wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:26 pm
Surely the courts will ask them to compromise on both sides.
Really? I can remember when Cyril A. said, that Mercedes "protect" their senior staff from moving to other teams. I think he said it will take 2 years when the Merc-Engineer can start at Renault. In that regard the Dan Fallows situation seems not far-fetched with a start in July 2023.

Edit: here it is https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rena ... 6/3053560/
The quotes in this interview regarding Red Bull are a bit the opposite what they are supposed to do with Dan Fallows #-o

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mstar
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I think your misinformed. the engineers moved from Mercedes to AM, RB and Ferrari was all negotiated to leave early. As far as i read only RB have these massive notice periods with no get-out clauses. The staff moved from Mercedes HP engines all negotiated earlier release to go to RB. Maybe Dan has some water-tight contract and RB basically want to screw him and AM best they can.

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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“Screw”. Such class. It is a year with the biggest change in regulation in a decade. And you think you will leave the man that knows about every aero secret you have go and share them with AM even before the cars are finalized without keeping him to his contractual obligations. Perfectly understandable this is taken to court.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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Ryar
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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mstar wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:35 pm
I think your misinformed. the engineers moved from Mercedes to AM, RB and Ferrari was all negotiated to leave early. As far as i read only RB have these massive notice periods with no get-out clauses. The staff moved from Mercedes HP engines all negotiated earlier release to go to RB. Maybe Dan has some water-tight contract and RB basically want to screw him and AM best they can.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rena ... 0situation.

Renault: Long Mercedes gardening leave spells are 'unfair'
Jonathan Noble Oct 22, 2017, 4:03 PM wrote:Renault boss Cyril Abiteboul thinks Mercedes is being ‘unfair’ in the way it is locking down staff to lengthy gardening leave spells to delay them switching to other teams.

With Renault investing heavily to expand its operation, it has faced frustrations that Mercedes in particular is slowing down the arrival of staff that have agreed to join them by up to two years.

Abiteboul believes that such ‘aggressive’ contractual terms are not only frustrating for his outfit, but are bad for the sport because they prevent the spreading of knowledge that keeps the F1 grid competitive.

“Red Bull is not too aggressive in the way they are keeping their people, but Mercedes are the most aggressive,” said Abiteboul during a sponsor event with Infiniti in Austin.
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west52keep64
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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The thing is, he's already left RB, and the court can hardly order him to stop working at AM and return to RB. The likely outcome is some kind of financial penalty for breach of contract, but normally with this sort of thing the employer would need to demonstrate some kind of financial loss. I'm not sure how they would do this.

I expect AM would probably be willing to help him out with any financial penalty he receives.

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Ryar
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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west52keep64 wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:32 pm
The thing is, he's already left RB, and the court can hardly order him to stop working at AM and return to RB. The likely outcome is some kind of financial penalty for breach of contract, but normally with this sort of thing the employer would need to demonstrate some kind of financial loss. I'm not sure how they would do this.

I expect AM would probably be willing to help him out with any financial penalty he receives.
The contractual obligations have to be served if one party doesn't want to let go the contractual terms. These contracts are designed within the employment labor law framework and courts don't overrule them if the employee had agreed to sign in at the time of joining or had agreed to any changes in contract during the course of employment.

Fallows hasn't started working at AM yet. Neither has he departed RB yet. RB doesn't want Fallows to come back and work for them. They just want him to go on gardening leave (1.5 years) and then serve 6 months notice period and depart.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/dan-fallo ... xit-court/
A report in Motorsport Week now states the matter is being heard in the England and Wales High Court, and that the initial hearing held on December 17 went in Red Bull’s favour.
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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Ryar wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:31 am
west52keep64 wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:32 pm
The thing is, he's already left RB, and the court can hardly order him to stop working at AM and return to RB. The likely outcome is some kind of financial penalty for breach of contract, but normally with this sort of thing the employer would need to demonstrate some kind of financial loss. I'm not sure how they would do this.

I expect AM would probably be willing to help him out with any financial penalty he receives.
The contractual obligations have to be served if one party doesn't want to let go the contractual terms. These contracts are designed within the employment labor law framework and courts don't overrule them if the employee had agreed to sign in at the time of joining or had agreed to any changes in contract during the course of employment.

Fallows hasn't started working at AM yet. Neither has he departed RB yet. RB doesn't want Fallows to come back and work for them. They just want him to go on gardening leave (1.5 years) and then serve 6 months notice period and depart.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/dan-fallo ... xit-court/
A report in Motorsport Week now states the matter is being heard in the England and Wales High Court, and that the initial hearing held on December 17 went in Red Bull’s favour.
It probably does not prevent the person working for that time, just not working in a particular field.
He could lecture or do research, or do the dinner circuit with TV etc included, so it is not 'loss of livelihood' just preventing transfer of 'secrets'. I would not be surprised if the court upholds it as it does not stop him working or earning, and this would have been clear at the time and compensated financially for.
A good time to do a book too
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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west52keep64
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Ryar wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:31 am
west52keep64 wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:32 pm
The thing is, he's already left RB, and the court can hardly order him to stop working at AM and return to RB. The likely outcome is some kind of financial penalty for breach of contract, but normally with this sort of thing the employer would need to demonstrate some kind of financial loss. I'm not sure how they would do this.

I expect AM would probably be willing to help him out with any financial penalty he receives.
The contractual obligations have to be served if one party doesn't want to let go the contractual terms. These contracts are designed within the employment labor law framework and courts don't overrule them if the employee had agreed to sign in at the time of joining or had agreed to any changes in contract during the course of employment.

Fallows hasn't started working at AM yet. Neither has he departed RB yet. RB doesn't want Fallows to come back and work for them. They just want him to go on gardening leave (1.5 years) and then serve 6 months notice period and depart.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/dan-fallo ... xit-court/
A report in Motorsport Week now states the matter is being heard in the England and Wales High Court, and that the initial hearing held on December 17 went in Red Bull’s favour.
He has been taken to court for breach of contract. The contract stated he needed to continue to work his notice period, but he has already left RB, so it's a done thing. The court cannot order him to fulfil the contractual obligations, there's no mechanism to do that. That outcome would also mean he would have to return to working for RB and they would have to continue paying him until July 2023. Again, that's simply not possible, you can't force someone to work somewhere just because they signed a contract. All RB can do is seek to recover their financial losses that resulted from the breach of contract and possibly secure an injunction to block him from working somewhere else.

Once the court makes an order, either way, it's likely to be done and dusted and he will be free to join AM. There's a slim chance RB could secure an injunction to prevent him working anywhere else... but one that lasts until July 2023? Seems incredibly unlikely.

EDIT: Here's the source that confirms he left RB:
The court documents, seen by MotorsportWeek.com, report that Fallows was removed from the Formula 1 operations and deployed within Red Bull Technologies to work on the road car division, which is actually working with Aston Martin on a joint project called the Valkyrie. His contract allowed for such changes in his job description.

Fallows was unhappy with this and raised a grievance, which was rejected and was not appealed. A month later, Fallows left Red Bull with immediate effect.

Red Bull then sought a declaration that the defendant was not constructively dismissed, but resigned, and his contract and its minimum terms “remained and remains in full force and effect”.
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2022/01/ ... on-martin/

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Ryar
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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west52keep64 wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:02 pm
Ryar wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:31 am
west52keep64 wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:32 pm
The thing is, he's already left RB, and the court can hardly order him to stop working at AM and return to RB. The likely outcome is some kind of financial penalty for breach of contract, but normally with this sort of thing the employer would need to demonstrate some kind of financial loss. I'm not sure how they would do this.

I expect AM would probably be willing to help him out with any financial penalty he receives.
The contractual obligations have to be served if one party doesn't want to let go the contractual terms. These contracts are designed within the employment labor law framework and courts don't overrule them if the employee had agreed to sign in at the time of joining or had agreed to any changes in contract during the course of employment.

Fallows hasn't started working at AM yet. Neither has he departed RB yet. RB doesn't want Fallows to come back and work for them. They just want him to go on gardening leave (1.5 years) and then serve 6 months notice period and depart.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/dan-fallo ... xit-court/
A report in Motorsport Week now states the matter is being heard in the England and Wales High Court, and that the initial hearing held on December 17 went in Red Bull’s favour.
He has been taken to court for breach of contract. The contract stated he needed to continue to work his notice period, but he has already left RB, so it's a done thing. The court cannot order him to fulfil the contractual obligations, there's no mechanism to do that. That outcome would also mean he would have to return to working for RB and they would have to continue paying him until July 2023. Again, that's simply not possible, you can't force someone to work somewhere just because they signed a contract. All RB can do is seek to recover their financial losses that resulted from the breach of contract and possibly secure an injunction to block him from working somewhere else.

Once the court makes an order, either way, it's likely to be done and dusted and he will be free to join AM. There's a slim chance RB could secure an injunction to prevent him working anywhere else... but one that lasts until July 2023? Seems incredibly unlikely.

EDIT: Here's the source that confirms he left RB:
The court documents, seen by MotorsportWeek.com, report that Fallows was removed from the Formula 1 operations and deployed within Red Bull Technologies to work on the road car division, which is actually working with Aston Martin on a joint project called the Valkyrie. His contract allowed for such changes in his job description.

Fallows was unhappy with this and raised a grievance, which was rejected and was not appealed. A month later, Fallows left Red Bull with immediate effect.

Red Bull then sought a declaration that the defendant was not constructively dismissed, but resigned, and his contract and its minimum terms “remained and remains in full force and effect”.
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2022/01/ ... on-martin/
An employee declaring he is quitting and not coming to work, doesn't mean he is out! There are basic rules governing employment and NOT serving notice period and all other contractual obligations, makes him guilty under the the court of law. As the article already mentions, the first round of hearing has gone in Red Bull's favor. So there is every reason for Red Bull to keep Fallows off Aston Martin until 2023.
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SiLo
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Would he still be paid in full during gardening leave?
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west52keep64
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Ryar wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:20 pm
An employee declaring he is quitting and not coming to work, doesn't mean he is out! There are basic rules governing employment and NOT serving notice period and all other contractual obligations, makes him guilty under the the court of law. As the article already mentions, the first round of hearing has gone in Red Bull's favor. So there is every reason for Red Bull to keep Fallows off Aston Martin until 2023.
I mean, he is out, it literally says as much in the article and court papers. Either he's still employed by Red Bull and "working" through gardening leave which would mean he's in compliance with his contract, or he has left before the notice period and breached the contract. It's quite clearly the latter in this case. The judge may award an injunction to prevent him from working at Aston Martin, I highly doubt that would be any longer than 6 months. Just because the contract says 6 months from the end of 2022 doesn't mean that's automatically what the judge would award.

SiLo wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:59 pm
Would he still be paid in full during gardening leave?
If we was still employed by Red Bull, yes. It seems pretty clear he is no longer employed though. Also, he was never put on gardening leave, he was moved to a different role away from the F1 team. This is part of the basis for his claim for constructive dismissal, he was effectively moved to a different job which he wasn't happy about and felt like he had no choice but to leave inside his notice period. The fact he had already been offered and accepted the role at Aston Martin by this point doesn't help support this defence though.