2022 pecking order speculation

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Who comes out on top in the new regs?

Mercedes
117
26%
Red Bull
101
23%
Ferrari
123
28%
McLaren
60
13%
Aston Martin
9
2%
Williams
8
2%
Haas
8
2%
Alfa Romeo
1
0%
Alpine
18
4%
Alpha Tauri
1
0%
 
Total votes: 446

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
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Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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If a team goes down the wrong design path with their new car and needs to make radical or extensive changes to their car mid season is there anything other than budget cap to stop them?

Basically if their new car is a dog can it be changed?

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El Scorchio
20
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:01 am
If a team goes down the wrong design path with their new car and needs to make radical or extensive changes to their car mid season is there anything other than budget cap to stop them?

Basically if their new car is a dog can it be changed?
Interesting one, that! I'd imagine the budget cap would be pretty prohibitive if it's a big overhaul. One of the 'smaller' teams might go quite extreme down a certain design path to gamble on an anticipated early advantage and the bigger teams may play it safer (advantage RBR and Ferrari with their test teams?) at the start and just develop to converge on what looks the best solution, if it's not one of them who already has it. The big question I suppose is how much scope there is to go down significantly different directions.

Jolle
Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:01 am
If a team goes down the wrong design path with their new car and needs to make radical or extensive changes to their car mid season is there anything other than budget cap to stop them?

Basically if their new car is a dog can it be changed?
For quite some time now it's already been difficult. Due to restrains in CFD and windtunnel time catchup isn't made easy. You just can't run a parallel team anymore like for instance McLaren did in the eighties and nineties. For the past decade, if you had a dog of a car at launch of the regulations... It's also quite visible that year over year most teams have evolutions of their original design, especially the ones at the front. A big change in design midway thought a regulation period will take several years to catch up.

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
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Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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Thanks for the excellent replies, I thought things like CFD and windtunnel time and the budget cap that have been mentioned would be a major hurdle but would something like homologation also be a issue?

Jolle
Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:34 am
Thanks for the excellent replies, I thought things like CFD and windtunnel time and the budget cap that have been mentioned would be a major hurdle but would something like homologation also be a issue?
What do you mean by homologation? As in, complying to the regulations? All teams are for decades in close contact with the fia asking clarifications on new designs and ideas from a very early stage, not to loose time. This way they know that stuff in the past like the mass damper, f-duct, DAS or the double diffuser were legal. As far as I can remember only twice in recent history teams Ff-Ed up and did visible illegal stuff on their cars (Williams had their front suspension thingy a couple of years ago and Ferrari messed up their exhaust exits one launch)

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:02 am

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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Isn't there a section of the new rules that the FIA can shut down anything they deem too "outside" the intended box of performance?

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
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Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:53 am
Marty_Y wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:34 am
Thanks for the excellent replies, I thought things like CFD and windtunnel time and the budget cap that have been mentioned would be a major hurdle but would something like homologation also be a issue?
What do you mean by homologation? As in, complying to the regulations? All teams are for decades in close contact with the fia asking clarifications on new designs and ideas from a very early stage, not to loose time. This way they know that stuff in the past like the mass damper, f-duct, DAS or the double diffuser were legal. As far as I can remember only twice in recent history teams Ff-Ed up and did visible illegal stuff on their cars (Williams had their front suspension thingy a couple of years ago and Ferrari messed up their exhaust exits one launch)
I was thinking along the lines that things needed to be approved by a certain point in time then after that they might not be allowed to change until the next season?

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Stu
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Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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That was certainly the case for 2021 (due to the token system for changes from 2020), but I think that the only items that could be considered homologated are the engine/power unit and possibly the gearbox. This needn’t include the rear chassis section (gearbox carrier & ‘bell-housing) though. Budget constraints would probably negate ‘B-spec’ chassis’ being introduced mid-season.
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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FW17
151
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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What is the loss of energy from the new fuel? is it going to be more than 4%?

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
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Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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Stu wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:53 am
That was certainly the case for 2021 (due to the token system for changes from 2020), but I think that the only items that could be considered homologated are the engine/power unit and possibly the gearbox. This needn’t include the rear chassis section (gearbox carrier & ‘bell-housing) though. Budget constraints would probably negate ‘B-spec’ chassis’ being introduced mid-season.
Thanks!

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hollus
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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Bump.
I would like to see a paleontologist.

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Zynerji
105
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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I'm just praying for some kind of Cinderella story in 2022. Alpine having 2 tenths on everyone else would be world breaking, as would a battle of WDC's all being within .1s of each other.

Teams like HAAS/Williams/AT/AR having a magic combination of factors would be sensational, and drive huge interest and make new fans.

If its Mercedes winning another double with 5 races to go, its going to just be boring af....again. I hope 2021 doesn't turn out to be the "Golden Season" of the 2020's!

BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade
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Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:15 am

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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While we are at it:
What would you consider to be the "Golden Season" of the 2010's?

Jolle
Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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What I hope and suspect are not the same list.
What I suspect is Mercedes having a good lead again, followed by McLaren and Ferrari fighting for the last podium. Redbull struggling with their PU and packaging the first half of the season. Then Alpine with decent speed but lots of DNF’s with MHU-H failures. Williams fighting AT, AM and AR. HAAS, well, being HAAS.

What I hope, fight of the titans with Verstappen and Hamilton going edge to edge (but with a better race director).
Last edited by Jolle on Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wouter
88
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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Jolle wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:12 pm
What I hope and suspect are not the same list.
What I suspect is Mercedes having a good lead again, followed by McLaren and Ferrari fighting for the last podium. Redbull struggling with their PU and packaging the first half of the season. Then Alpine with decent speed but lots of DNF’s with MHU-H failures. Williams fighting AT and AR, HAAS, well, being HAAS.

What I hope, fight of the titans with Verstappen and Hamilton going edge to edge (but with a better race director).
Why would Redbull struggling with their PU and packaging the first half of the season? Just curious.
Did they that ever before?
The Power of Honda!