Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Stu
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Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Just for giggles I have applied the old points scoring system (10,6,4,3,2,1) to the 2021 season. Belgium has been left as half-points.

Interestingly, this does not alter the championship battle (it does change a bit further down the order), constructor championship positions do not change at all!!

I also separated out fastest lap & Sprint points to see how that effected it (changes in brackets)
Max Verstappen 143 (155)
Lewis Hamilton 135 (143)
Valtteri Bottas 59 (69)
Sergio Perez 48 (49)
Lando Norris 32 (33)
Charles Leclerc 32 (32)
Carlos Sainz Jnr 27 (28)
Daniel Ricciardo 23.5 (25.5)
Pierre Gasly 17.5 (18.5)
Esteban Ocon 15 (15)
Fernando Alonso 10 (10)
Sebastian Vettel 9 (9)
Yuki Tsunoda 4 (4)
George Russell 3 (3)
Lance Stroll 1 (1)

Removing fastest lap and Sprint points does not affect constructor standings either.

Note: edited for correction (12/1/22)
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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AeroDynamic
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Cool, thanks for sharing this. I hope they create some new rules around FL. It’s affecting team strategy and making the points very cheap. FL should not be earned by a driver making a pit stop for fresh tyres in the final 5-10 laps.

They should make it a rule that FL is earned in the first tyre change or something that helps to make FL mean something other than cheap point snatching and ruining other drivers races in teams.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:34 am
Cool, thanks for sharing this. I hope they create some new rules around FL. It’s affecting team strategy and making the points very cheap. FL should not be earned by a driver making a pit stop for fresh tyres in the final 5-10 laps.

They should make it a rule that FL is earned in the first tyre change or something that helps to make FL mean something other than cheap point snatching and ruining other drivers races in teams.
Agree about FL. They should just bin it off. It was a nice idea (albeit very ‘Liberty’ and ‘Entertainment’ based) but it’s not being used in the spirit intended at all. Especially when you have teams willing to give up actual WDC and WCC points just in order to take the FL point away from a competitor.

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Stu
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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I am inclined to think that it should be kept, but only earn WDC points (and Sprint points should be the same, if we really must have them as a part of the weekend). The teams would maybe be a bit less blasé about pulling drivers from a position that earns WCC points?

Looking at the results, there really isn’t a need (based on 2021 season) to have such high points scores (and paying down to 10th place).
I’m going to run through it again with an even older points system (9,6,4,3,2,1). I have an inkling that may mix things up a bit!!
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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We've seen time and again the team-mate of a WDC contender be pulled out of position to cost points for the other WDC contender. Get rid of the FL point. It is pointless.
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El Scorchio
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Some teams may, some teams will not. Also it won’t stop the cheapness of what we saw several times last season- whoever is in second place out of Hamilton or Verstappen just getting a free point with a late pit stop as the pair of them are a clear pit window ahead of everyone else. It’s just not how it should be. They could tweak it to say if it’s set after what’s deemed an ‘excess’ stop it cannot count, but that’s just over complicating the rules yet again in a sport where as we’ve seen the rules are already overly complex, lacking clarity and infuriating for everyone at times.

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Stu
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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To qualify the pit-stop must take place with at least 25% laps to run??
I think that is the point in a race where full points can be awarded??? Goes off to check… 🤔😗 🎶🎵🎶🎵
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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El Scorchio
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:14 pm
To qualify the pit-stop must take place with at least 25% laps to run??
I think that is the point in a race where full points can be awarded??? Goes off to check… 🤔😗 🎶🎵🎶🎵
It’s a nice idea but that will probably just pull the shenanigans we’ve seen this season to earlier in the race. Sacrificing a team mate with 3 laps to go or 15 (or whatever the cut off is) laps to go is essentially the same thing.

bosyber
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:27 pm
Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:14 pm
To qualify the pit-stop must take place with at least 25% laps to run??
I think that is the point in a race where full points can be awarded??? Goes off to check… 🤔😗 🎶🎵🎶🎵
It’s a nice idea but that will probably just pull the shenanigans we’ve seen this season to earlier in the race. Sacrificing a team mate with 3 laps to go or 15 (or whatever the cut off is) laps to go is essentially the same thing.
Hm, just imagine, a race starting on a damp track, wet enough that for the leader, who's keeping his inters in good shape, it's only lap 48/60 that he stops for slicks after a VSC from someone who made an error on cold slicks. Either keep it as is, useless as it is, or preferably drop it. But no extra rules to make it more complicated.

The 'only 10th and up get it' rule is already a bit too much IMO, dropping that probably would change someone running in the back of the midfield with no chance of points to not retire to 'save the engine' but go for a try at FLAP (Alonso?), which wouldn't be a negative in my view :)

Interesting that in this season there wasn't a big difference in standing from those old points. I suppose the season having quite a few incidents and DNF's made it so that all teams down to Williams had some chance at getting into the top 10.

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Stu
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:17 pm
I am inclined to think that it should be kept, but only earn WDC points (and Sprint points should be the same, if we really must have them as a part of the weekend). The teams would maybe be a bit less blasé about pulling drivers from a position that earns WCC points?

Looking at the results, there really isn’t a need (based on 2021 season) to have such high points scores (and paying down to 10th place).
I’m going to run through it again with an even older points system (9,6,4,3,2,1). I have an inkling that may mix things up a bit!!
Update!!!
It makes no difference….
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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AeroDynamic
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Unpopular opinion; WDC should be decided by a drivers best results outside of 1-2 races. This way Max still probably would’ve won the title even if Hamilton won Abu Dhubi, and Hamilton would’ve probably won the 2016 title etc. collecting points as Prost did should be rewarded not when you collect them when a rival had an engine failure or completely taken out through no fault of his own like Max was in Hungary, it just distorts the sport.

I love racing as a sport but I really wish the rules did more to make the balance of the WDC deciding factors to the drivers level rather than luck.

Scrap red flag rules with changing tyres / repairing cars. Scrap cheap pit stops during SC period, or allow them with a time penalty. Etc.

I also feel safety car rules should be looked at. I don’t think cars should be allowed to unlap themselves, more should be done to respect race distance, racing scenario etc. restart the race fom the grid standing start, in order or cars at the time of safety car.. explore some sort of stop-go system per driver based on the estimated gap between drivers, so when the lights go out, each driver is signalled individually when they can go.

I’d like to see results reflective of driving more than misfortune / fortune. F1 has to technology to do all of the above. And I can’t see why people would complain about maintaining advantages they earned out on track.

CMSMJ1
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:39 pm
Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:17 pm
I am inclined to think that it should be kept, but only earn WDC points (and Sprint points should be the same, if we really must have them as a part of the weekend). The teams would maybe be a bit less blasé about pulling drivers from a position that earns WCC points?

Looking at the results, there really isn’t a need (based on 2021 season) to have such high points scores (and paying down to 10th place).
I’m going to run through it again with an even older points system (9,6,4,3,2,1). I have an inkling that may mix things up a bit!!
Update!!!
It makes no difference….
What about splitting the season into 2 halves and allowing the dropping of 2x poor results? a la the 80's style?

Chop chop 8)
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM

DChemTech
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:24 am
Just for giggles I have applied the old points scoring system (10,6,4,3,2,1) to the 2021 season. Belgium has been left as half-points.

Interestingly, this does not alter the championship battle (it does change a bit further down the order), constructor championship positions do not change at all!!

I also separated out fastest lap & Sprint points to see how that effected it (changes in brackets)
Max Verstappen 143 (155)
Lewis Hamilton 135 (143)
Valtteri Bottas 59 (69)
Sergio Perez 48 (49)
Carlos Sainz Jnr 29 (30)
Lando Norris 32 (33)
Charles Leclerc 32 (32)
Daniel Ricciardo 23.5 (25.5)
Pierre Gasly 17.5 (18.5)
Esteban Ocon 15 (15)
Fernando Alonso 10 (10)
Sebastian Vettel 9 (9)
Yuki Tsunoda 4 (4)
George Russell 3 (3)
Lance Stroll 1 (1)

Removing fastest lap and Sprint points does not affect constructor standings either.
Seems one implication is that Max would have won regardless of who won the last race in this case; 4 less for Max and 4 more for Lewis would draw them without sprints/FL, and have a clear Max win with those factors.

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Stu
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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CMSMJ1 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:52 pm
Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:39 pm
Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:17 pm
I am inclined to think that it should be kept, but only earn WDC points (and Sprint points should be the same, if we really must have them as a part of the weekend). The teams would maybe be a bit less blasé about pulling drivers from a position that earns WCC points?

Looking at the results, there really isn’t a need (based on 2021 season) to have such high points scores (and paying down to 10th place).
I’m going to run through it again with an even older points system (9,6,4,3,2,1). I have an inkling that may mix things up a bit!!
Update!!!
It makes no difference….
What about splitting the season into 2 halves and allowing the dropping of 2x poor results? a la the 80's style?

Chop chop 8)
I remember the dropped scores, didn’t they get to drop 4 scores from 16?
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

CMSMJ1
CMSMJ1
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:00 pm
CMSMJ1 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:52 pm
Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:39 pm


Update!!!
It makes no difference….
What about splitting the season into 2 halves and allowing the dropping of 2x poor results? a la the 80's style?

Chop chop 8)
I remember the dropped scores, didn’t they get to drop 4 scores from 16?
If you believe the joys of Wiki - best 11 scores for the year were the 1981-1990 regs.

I am sure the year was split..

Also found this massive timesink. https://www.formula1points.com/alltime Good site...
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM