Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Stu
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Nice find! That would be a huge amount of work to go through to ‘weight’ it so that the recent scoring system (and season length) didn’t skew the table. Logically LH would still be at the top.
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siskue2005
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:24 am
Just for giggles I have applied the old points scoring system (10,6,4,3,2,1) to the 2021 season. Belgium has been left as half-points.

Interestingly, this does not alter the championship battle (it does change a bit further down the order), constructor championship positions do not change at all!!

I also separated out fastest lap & Sprint points to see how that effected it (changes in brackets)
Max Verstappen 143 (155)
Lewis Hamilton 135 (143)
Valtteri Bottas 59 (69)
Sergio Perez 48 (49)
Carlos Sainz Jnr 29 (30)
Lando Norris 32 (33)
Charles Leclerc 32 (32)
Daniel Ricciardo 23.5 (25.5)
Pierre Gasly 17.5 (18.5)
Esteban Ocon 15 (15)
Fernando Alonso 10 (10)
Sebastian Vettel 9 (9)
Yuki Tsunoda 4 (4)
George Russell 3 (3)
Lance Stroll 1 (1)

Removing fastest lap and Sprint points does not affect constructor standings either.
There is youtube video on it


graham.reeds
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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jjn9128 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:31 pm
We've seen time and again the team-mate of a WDC contender be pulled out of position to cost points for the other WDC contender. Get rid of the FL point. It is pointless.
Actually it is 1 point.

I will get my coat.

drc
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:24 am
Just for giggles I have applied the old points scoring system (10,6,4,3,2,1) to the 2021 season. Belgium has been left as half-points.

Interestingly, this does not alter the championship battle (it does change a bit further down the order), constructor championship positions do not change at all!!

I also separated out fastest lap & Sprint points to see how that effected it (changes in brackets)
Max Verstappen 143 (155)
Lewis Hamilton 135 (143)
Valtteri Bottas 59 (69)
Sergio Perez 48 (49)
Carlos Sainz Jnr 29 (30)
Lando Norris 32 (33)
Charles Leclerc 32 (32)
Daniel Ricciardo 23.5 (25.5)
Pierre Gasly 17.5 (18.5)
Esteban Ocon 15 (15)
Fernando Alonso 10 (10)
Sebastian Vettel 9 (9)
Yuki Tsunoda 4 (4)
George Russell 3 (3)
Lance Stroll 1 (1)

Removing fastest lap and Sprint points does not affect constructor standings either.
SAI would have had 27 points, instead of 29. Also, why have you put him above NOR and LEC on this list?

drc
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:39 pm
Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:17 pm
I am inclined to think that it should be kept, but only earn WDC points (and Sprint points should be the same, if we really must have them as a part of the weekend). The teams would maybe be a bit less blasé about pulling drivers from a position that earns WCC points?

Looking at the results, there really isn’t a need (based on 2021 season) to have such high points scores (and paying down to 10th place).
I’m going to run through it again with an even older points system (9,6,4,3,2,1). I have an inkling that may mix things up a bit!!
Update!!!
It makes no difference….
AR got to score points under the system in place, precisely because it has extended the number of points scoring positions. And points mean income.

drc
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:48 pm
Unpopular opinion; WDC should be decided by a drivers best results outside of 1-2 races. This way Max still probably would’ve won the title even if Hamilton won Abu Dhubi
No, scrapping the worst (2) result(s) wouldn't have changed a thing, so with HAM winning ABU, he would've won the title too. For VER getting the title with HAM winning ABU, and leaving everything else the same, would require scrapping (at least) the 3 worst results. With 3, they would have had the same number of points, but VER would get the title on countback.

drc
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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CMSMJ1 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:50 pm

If you believe the joys of Wiki - best 11 scores for the year were the 1981-1990 regs.

I am sure the year was split..
The year wasn't split in '81-'90, but in '67-'78, dropping the worst result in each half (so in total 2).
In '80 it was split too, but with dropping the 2 worst results in each half instead (so in total 4).
Inbetween, in '79, it was also split, but that year they dropped half (rounded off down) of the results.

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Stu
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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drc wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:28 am
Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:24 am
Just for giggles I have applied the old points scoring system (10,6,4,3,2,1) to the 2021 season. Belgium has been left as half-points.

Interestingly, this does not alter the championship battle (it does change a bit further down the order), constructor championship positions do not change at all!!

I also separated out fastest lap & Sprint points to see how that effected it (changes in brackets)
Max Verstappen 143 (155)
Lewis Hamilton 135 (143)
Valtteri Bottas 59 (69)
Sergio Perez 48 (49)
Carlos Sainz Jnr 29 (30)
Lando Norris 32 (33)
Charles Leclerc 32 (32)
Daniel Ricciardo 23.5 (25.5)
Pierre Gasly 17.5 (18.5)
Esteban Ocon 15 (15)
Fernando Alonso 10 (10)
Sebastian Vettel 9 (9)
Yuki Tsunoda 4 (4)
George Russell 3 (3)
Lance Stroll 1 (1)

Removing fastest lap and Sprint points does not affect constructor standings either.
SAI would have had 27 points, instead of 29. Also, why have you put him above NOR and LEC on this list?
I’ll check my spreadsheet to see what I have done wrong. As for the order, missed that one.

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The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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AeroDynamic
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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drc wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:02 am
AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:48 pm
Unpopular opinion; WDC should be decided by a drivers best results outside of 1-2 races. This way Max still probably would’ve won the title even if Hamilton won Abu Dhubi
No, scrapping the worst (2) result(s) wouldn't have changed a thing, so with HAM winning ABU, he would've won the title too. For VER getting the title with HAM winning ABU, and leaving everything else the same, would require scrapping (at least) the 3 worst results. With 3, they would have had the same number of points, but VER would get the title on countback.
Ah okay. Thanks for clarifying this further. I thought 1-2 results would be enough. I still think it is. I don’t think 3-4 worse results being scrapped is proportionate. Otherwise it invites gaming it as an advantage more and more, and only so much poor luck should be afforded to be written off. I think best results outside of 2 races is proportionate. For max Hungary and Baku come to mind, you can chalk them up to motorsport. Such as an engine failure.

Monza and Silverstone, himself and Hamilton had much of a hand in, and I don’t think this rule should write off such results.

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Stu
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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drc wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:28 am
Stu wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:24 am
Just for giggles I have applied the old points scoring system (10,6,4,3,2,1) to the 2021 season. Belgium has been left as half-points.

Interestingly, this does not alter the championship battle (it does change a bit further down the order), constructor championship positions do not change at all!!

I also separated out fastest lap & Sprint points to see how that effected it (changes in brackets)
Max Verstappen 143 (155)
Lewis Hamilton 135 (143)
Valtteri Bottas 59 (69)
Sergio Perez 48 (49)
Carlos Sainz Jnr 29 (30)
Lando Norris 32 (33)
Charles Leclerc 32 (32)
Daniel Ricciardo 23.5 (25.5)
Pierre Gasly 17.5 (18.5)
Esteban Ocon 15 (15)
Fernando Alonso 10 (10)
Sebastian Vettel 9 (9)
Yuki Tsunoda 4 (4)
George Russell 3 (3)
Lance Stroll 1 (1)

Removing fastest lap and Sprint points does not affect constructor standings either.
SAI would have had 27 points, instead of 29. Also, why have you put him above NOR and LEC on this list?
Now corrected (see OP)
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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I vote to get rid of FL point as well. The original goal of it was to get top ten contenders to push hard in the closing laps instead of cruising home. What we got instead was the leading drivers still cruising home if there is a risk in pushing and their teammates with nothing to lose pitting for fast tyres instead to get the point.

As pointed out by another poster either get rid of the rule or alter it somehow to prevent last minute pitting. I rather just get rid of it to keep things simple.
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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drc
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Stu wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:42 pm
drc wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:28 am

SAI would have had 27 points, instead of 29. Also, why have you put him above NOR and LEC on this list?
Now corrected (see OP)
Noted.

drc
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:24 am
drc wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:02 am

No, scrapping the worst (2) result(s) wouldn't have changed a thing, so with HAM winning ABU, he would've won the title too. For VER getting the title with HAM winning ABU, and leaving everything else the same, would require scrapping (at least) the 3 worst results. With 3, they would have had the same number of points, but VER would get the title on countback.
Ah okay. Thanks for clarifying this further. I thought 1-2 results would be enough. I still think it is. I don’t think 3-4 worse results being scrapped is proportionate. Otherwise it invites gaming it as an advantage more and more, and only so much poor luck should be afforded to be written off. I think best results outside of 2 races is proportionate. For max Hungary and Baku come to mind, you can chalk them up to motorsport. Such as an engine failure.

Monza and Silverstone, himself and Hamilton had much of a hand in, and I don’t think this rule should write off such results.
You're welcome.
Agree about the "gaming it" part, and that scrapping 3-4 would be too many. In fact, I prefer scrapping nothing at all.

notsofast
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Looking back on last season, the one thing that bothered me the most was that a driver who is judged to be "predominantly at fault" can earn more points than the driver he disadvantaged. That part just doesn't sit well with me. Other kinds of misfortune are part of the sport.

Jolle
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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notsofast wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:39 pm
Looking back on last season, the one thing that bothered me the most was that a driver who is judged to be "predominantly at fault" can earn more points than the driver he disadvantaged. That part just doesn't sit well with me. Other kinds of misfortune are part of the sport.
Veering waaaaay off topic, but for last season you also could say, both Hamilton and Verstappen had one DNF caused by other driver. Verstappen was unlucky he took himself out as well. Both also had one DNF because of misfortune, which had nothing much to do with pure race craft (Baku).

So both drivers were taken out by the other (even) both had a mishap (even) but Verstappen took himself out at Monza.