2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:59 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:14 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:04 pm
According to Craig Slater with insider contacts at Mercedes, some in senior positions have said it’s still unclear if Hamilton will come back. The team are awaiting to see what findings come out of the internal FIA investigation in those final laps of Abu Dhabi. The longer it goes on, the less likely Hamilton is to continue, reportedly.

Apparently it’s not him very hard isn’t he days since the Grand Prix.

I get it. He more than anyone else has to be seriously questioning the integrity of the sport. As Senna famously said 'You break your balls....' as Hamilton did all season long to be in that winning position fair and square one lap from the end, and then all of a sudden some bloke changes the rules of the sport on a whim causing it to be snatched away from you for the sake of 'entertainment'. It's match fixing in all but name.

Why would you want to put yourself through the rigours of a whole season of racing- and at the moment all the life compromises that go with it- if there's a danger of it just happening again should Masi or someone else decide the racing isn't dramatic enough and they are going to play God with the results? Who needs it?
Right.

It must also be a pretty lonely feeling to feel like the only one that cares as much as the situation really demands.

For everyone who one served it in other cars, the grand stands, the followers, it’s just a trivial event in their own lives and a sporting controversy but doesn’t change anything. So while drivers might be like “that’s f***ed up” it’s a passing reaction.

For the guy who did break his balls And work so hard for that result, something that does reflect on his career, it’s a tough one to take. And he has to deal with it alone. Mercedes also feel it of course.

This wound reminds me very much of Ayrton’s in 1989. I would say Ayrton’s was a greater injustice but this event for Hamilton isn’t a lot better.

If he does come back, and has a genuine opportunity for the title, I can see him being at his best level but I think he would start the season very slow and that might cost him.

I say this because he’s probably taking a big break from F1 as he should be also is not going to be eager to work hard as he would have in the pre ‘21 season. He feels robbed and one has to imagine you feel a fear that you could work hard for nothing again.

Meanwhile, George will be eager to get into the new team. Settle, pursue every bit of time he can get in the simulator with the new car with Mercedes, and I expect him to start stronger between the two from better prep alone.
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... -of-senna/
Asked at the first race if he felt bitter about the matter, Senna made a lengthy pause before saying, “Perhaps my silence speaks for itself.”

A controversial title decider, the losing driver suggesting there had been manipulation, then issuing no further statements for several weeks, doubts about whether he will be in the car for the new season…

Jolle
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:49 am
AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:59 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:14 pm


I get it. He more than anyone else has to be seriously questioning the integrity of the sport. As Senna famously said 'You break your balls....' as Hamilton did all season long to be in that winning position fair and square one lap from the end, and then all of a sudden some bloke changes the rules of the sport on a whim causing it to be snatched away from you for the sake of 'entertainment'. It's match fixing in all but name.

Why would you want to put yourself through the rigours of a whole season of racing- and at the moment all the life compromises that go with it- if there's a danger of it just happening again should Masi or someone else decide the racing isn't dramatic enough and they are going to play God with the results? Who needs it?
Right.

It must also be a pretty lonely feeling to feel like the only one that cares as much as the situation really demands.

For everyone who one served it in other cars, the grand stands, the followers, it’s just a trivial event in their own lives and a sporting controversy but doesn’t change anything. So while drivers might be like “that’s f***ed up” it’s a passing reaction.

For the guy who did break his balls And work so hard for that result, something that does reflect on his career, it’s a tough one to take. And he has to deal with it alone. Mercedes also feel it of course.

This wound reminds me very much of Ayrton’s in 1989. I would say Ayrton’s was a greater injustice but this event for Hamilton isn’t a lot better.

If he does come back, and has a genuine opportunity for the title, I can see him being at his best level but I think he would start the season very slow and that might cost him.

I say this because he’s probably taking a big break from F1 as he should be also is not going to be eager to work hard as he would have in the pre ‘21 season. He feels robbed and one has to imagine you feel a fear that you could work hard for nothing again.

Meanwhile, George will be eager to get into the new team. Settle, pursue every bit of time he can get in the simulator with the new car with Mercedes, and I expect him to start stronger between the two from better prep alone.
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... -of-senna/
Asked at the first race if he felt bitter about the matter, Senna made a lengthy pause before saying, “Perhaps my silence speaks for itself.”

A controversial title decider, the losing driver suggesting there had been manipulation, then issuing no further statements for several weeks, doubts about whether he will be in the car for the new season…
I think we’re going to see a very determined Hamilton this year. In his career he felt wronged a couple of times and every time, after some complaining on the radio, drove his best races. 2014, after spa… 2016 after Spain, last year at the Brazilian GP.
After all these incidents he takes a little rest to charge up and then releases something special.
If Mercedes builds a competitive car, my guess it will be way into the season before anyone else then him tops a session.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:27 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:49 am
AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:59 pm


Right.

It must also be a pretty lonely feeling to feel like the only one that cares as much as the situation really demands.

For everyone who one served it in other cars, the grand stands, the followers, it’s just a trivial event in their own lives and a sporting controversy but doesn’t change anything. So while drivers might be like “that’s f***ed up” it’s a passing reaction.

For the guy who did break his balls And work so hard for that result, something that does reflect on his career, it’s a tough one to take. And he has to deal with it alone. Mercedes also feel it of course.

This wound reminds me very much of Ayrton’s in 1989. I would say Ayrton’s was a greater injustice but this event for Hamilton isn’t a lot better.

If he does come back, and has a genuine opportunity for the title, I can see him being at his best level but I think he would start the season very slow and that might cost him.

I say this because he’s probably taking a big break from F1 as he should be also is not going to be eager to work hard as he would have in the pre ‘21 season. He feels robbed and one has to imagine you feel a fear that you could work hard for nothing again.

Meanwhile, George will be eager to get into the new team. Settle, pursue every bit of time he can get in the simulator with the new car with Mercedes, and I expect him to start stronger between the two from better prep alone.
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... -of-senna/
Asked at the first race if he felt bitter about the matter, Senna made a lengthy pause before saying, “Perhaps my silence speaks for itself.”

A controversial title decider, the losing driver suggesting there had been manipulation, then issuing no further statements for several weeks, doubts about whether he will be in the car for the new season…
I think we’re going to see a very determined Hamilton this year. In his career he felt wronged a couple of times and every time, after some complaining on the radio, drove his best races. 2014, after spa… 2016 after Spain, last year at the Brazilian GP.
After all these incidents he takes a little rest to charge up and then releases something special.
If Mercedes builds a competitive car, my guess it will be way into the season before anyone else then him tops a session.
It’s possible. But then, he is 37. He isn’t going to get better than he has been between 2018-2021. Can only get worse from here. He’s fighting age, fitness, fatigue of winning and committing to F1 for welll over a decade, etc. there is that chance what happened will be enough to push him to fight these things off enough to put in a quality enough season in a winning car to win the title. But it’s a lot to ask at the same time too. I’d like to see him come back and give someone a run for their money atleast.

Drivers at their best cannot go on and on forever, or win forever. We’ve seen it with Fernando, Kimi, Michael, Ayrton, Alain.. etc etc, it’s a cycle. We’re seeing it with Lewis now. It’s inevitable that the younger generation with age on their side, plus a hungry wining team / car will get in the throne. First you want to win races, win a title, beat the best driver in the sport. For many that’s enough for once or twice. Dominance is nice but don’t last forever either. The torch is being passed now. George, Max,Charles, Lando.. someone will be doing the winning for sometime, they have to dominate their own generation and fight off the next one if they want to reach the heights of Hamilton / Schumacher / Senna

Neuron
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:43 pm
It’s possible. But then, he is 37. He isn’t going to get better than he has been between 2018-2021. Can only get worse from here. He’s fighting age, fitness, fatigue of winning and committing to F1 for welll over a decade.
You are totally wrong imo. Last year he was 36 and everything was ok, now he's 37 and it is too late to be at the top?
We are talking about best of the best ever right? And remember that he is vegan - he many times claimed that it makes him very strong and good shape!

I think only one reason that 2021 was looking different than others in the past is Honda's engine. It's abnormal to retire only beacuse Honda made a strong engine. He must stay and prove himself.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Neuron wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:46 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:43 pm
It’s possible. But then, he is 37. He isn’t going to get better than he has been between 2018-2021. Can only get worse from here. He’s fighting age, fitness, fatigue of winning and committing to F1 for welll over a decade.
You are totally wrong imo. Last year he was 36 and everything was ok, now he's 37 and it is too late to be at the top?
We are talking about best of the best ever right? And remember that he is vegan - he many times claimed that it makes him very strong and good shape!

I think only one reason that 2021 was looking different than others in the past is Honda's engine. It's abnormal to retire only beacuse Honda made a strong engine. He must stay and prove himself.
You’ve misinterpreted what you’ve read. Everything wasn’t ok last year as he wasn’t In his peak fitness window like he was in the latter end of the championship. Regardless, he cannot get better physically than he was in the last 5 years. You decline with age, some sooner than others. He is not going to be getting better than we’ve seen before, but there’s certainly room to be more consistent with a car he’s comfortable in across the whole season, and with decent fitness all season.

He’s up there with the best ever, I would suggest Clark and Senna, maybe Fangio, are good cases to suggest he isn’t the very best. All of which could not beat age when it’s time. He’s proven himself against the best of his own generation since day 1 and won the titles. Normally its in the detractors mind that there is a thirst to have their own opinions disproven. I’ll wait and watch future drivers prove they can dominate their generation and fight off age and the next generation 8)

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Neuron wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:46 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:43 pm
It’s possible. But then, he is 37. He isn’t going to get better than he has been between 2018-2021. Can only get worse from here. He’s fighting age, fitness, fatigue of winning and committing to F1 for welll over a decade.
You are totally wrong imo. Last year he was 36 and everything was ok, now he's 37 and it is too late to be at the top?
We are talking about best of the best ever right? And remember that he is vegan - he many times claimed that it makes him very strong and good shape!

I think only one reason that 2021 was looking different than others in the past is Honda's engine. It's abnormal to retire only beacuse Honda made a strong engine. He must stay and prove himself.
Really not sure he has anything to prove to anyone.

But I agree he won't have lost much all of a sudden in a few months. He was very strong in the second half of the season, and a few things like the weather in Belgium, Turkey and Russia* didn't work out for him, as with a few other things. Let's face it, on track he had done enough to take the title until you-know-what happened at the last race.

*Yes I'm aware in Russia the rain helped him go from second to first, but it also gave Verstappen a smaller net loss of points going from seventh and struggling to stay there, to second.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:24 pm
Neuron wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:46 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:43 pm
It’s possible. But then, he is 37. He isn’t going to get better than he has been between 2018-2021. Can only get worse from here. He’s fighting age, fitness, fatigue of winning and committing to F1 for welll over a decade.
You are totally wrong imo. Last year he was 36 and everything was ok, now he's 37 and it is too late to be at the top?
We are talking about best of the best ever right? And remember that he is vegan - he many times claimed that it makes him very strong and good shape!

I think only one reason that 2021 was looking different than others in the past is Honda's engine. It's abnormal to retire only beacuse Honda made a strong engine. He must stay and prove himself.
Really not sure he has anything to prove to anyone.

But I agree he won't have lost much all of a sudden in a few months. He was very strong in the second half of the season, and a few things like the weather in Belgium, Turkey and Russia* didn't work out for him, as with a few other things. Let's face it, on track he had done enough to take the title until you-know-what happened at the last race.

*Yes I'm aware in Russia the rain helped him go from second to first, but it also gave Verstappen a smaller net loss of points going from seventh and struggling to stay there, to second.
Agree, although I’d like to suggest a strawman was placed here, I didn’t suggest he would suddenly be no where. But there’s suggestions he will be some sort of new man in terms of performance next year. We saw him back at his best when he was sufficiently recovered in his own fitness. It also coincided with Mercedes’ getting the set up on point.

Next year he has the opportunity to start with a car that works better for set up and he should in theory carry over the fitness level he attainted late last year. There I see an opportunity to bring that level and be more consistent in himself and extract a more consistent performing car with Mercedes. All of that overlaps with my point; he will not find a new gear of performance that we’ve not seen before. If he has an immaculate season we will see more of the same from late last year much earlier in the season.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:32 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:24 pm
Neuron wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:46 pm


You are totally wrong imo. Last year he was 36 and everything was ok, now he's 37 and it is too late to be at the top?
We are talking about best of the best ever right? And remember that he is vegan - he many times claimed that it makes him very strong and good shape!

I think only one reason that 2021 was looking different than others in the past is Honda's engine. It's abnormal to retire only beacuse Honda made a strong engine. He must stay and prove himself.
Really not sure he has anything to prove to anyone.

But I agree he won't have lost much all of a sudden in a few months. He was very strong in the second half of the season, and a few things like the weather in Belgium, Turkey and Russia* didn't work out for him, as with a few other things. Let's face it, on track he had done enough to take the title until you-know-what happened at the last race.

*Yes I'm aware in Russia the rain helped him go from second to first, but it also gave Verstappen a smaller net loss of points going from seventh and struggling to stay there, to second.
Agree, although I’d like to suggest a strawman was placed here, I didn’t suggest he would suddenly be no where. But there’s suggestions he will be some sort of new man in terms of performance next year. We saw him back at his best when he was sufficiently recovered in his own fitness. It also coincided with Mercedes’ getting the set up on point.

Next year he has the opportunity to start with a car that works better for set up and he should in theory carry over the fitness level he attainted late last year. There I see an opportunity to bring that level and be more consistent in himself and extract a more consistent performing car with Mercedes. All of that overlaps with my point; he will not find a new gear of performance that we’ve not seen before. If he has an immaculate season we will see more of the same from late last year much earlier in the season.
Agree with that. I don't think there will be a 'Hamilton 2.0' for sure. Probably most likely just a continuation of the form of the last few races. The 1.0 was pretty good, after all.

Jolle
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:41 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:32 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:24 pm


Really not sure he has anything to prove to anyone.

But I agree he won't have lost much all of a sudden in a few months. He was very strong in the second half of the season, and a few things like the weather in Belgium, Turkey and Russia* didn't work out for him, as with a few other things. Let's face it, on track he had done enough to take the title until you-know-what happened at the last race.

*Yes I'm aware in Russia the rain helped him go from second to first, but it also gave Verstappen a smaller net loss of points going from seventh and struggling to stay there, to second.
Agree, although I’d like to suggest a strawman was placed here, I didn’t suggest he would suddenly be no where. But there’s suggestions he will be some sort of new man in terms of performance next year. We saw him back at his best when he was sufficiently recovered in his own fitness. It also coincided with Mercedes’ getting the set up on point.

Next year he has the opportunity to start with a car that works better for set up and he should in theory carry over the fitness level he attainted late last year. There I see an opportunity to bring that level and be more consistent in himself and extract a more consistent performing car with Mercedes. All of that overlaps with my point; he will not find a new gear of performance that we’ve not seen before. If he has an immaculate season we will see more of the same from late last year much earlier in the season.
Agree with that. I don't think there will be a 'Hamilton 2.0' for sure. Probably most likely just a continuation of the form of the last few races. The 1.0 was pretty good, after all.
I think there are two Hamiltons if you talk about a 1.0 one or something. You have “we’re in the lead and doing fine” Hamilton (like say, 2015, 2020, etc) and we have “I’ll show them” talking on the track, coming from behind Hamilton. If he’s switched on like that, he ends your career if you are the hunted one.

As for age, Brazil was only a couple of months ago and possibly the first half of 2021 he was still not 100% after covid. We understand the human body and fitness so much better then 30 years ago and especially what is needed in F1. Across all sports where you need good core fitness, they are able to perform at a much higher age.

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wogx
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Hamilton will be at least number 1.5, if not number 2 Mercedes driver after 2022 season. George is unbelievably quick & fast adaptive, he was faster than Bottas since his first training in a Merc! Hamilton will be struggling in that competition, unfortunately... Post-COVID LH44 is not the same GOAT :(

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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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wogx wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:18 pm
Hamilton will be at least number 1.5, if not number 2 Mercedes driver after 2022 season. George is unbelievably quick & fast adaptive, he was faster than Bottas since his first training in a Merc! Hamilton will be struggling in that competition, unfortunately... Post-COVID LH44 is not the same GOAT :(
He lost to Bottas in quali though.

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wogx
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Yeah, and one day later he could've won his first race in his Mercedes debiut. But it wasn't his day, Mercedes had that colossal pit-stop error...
If there will be no team orders, then he should be above Lewis in drivers classification after Miami GP/Spain GP

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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It wasn’t russell’s first training in a Mercedes really, he has tested a few Mercedes. He got slower when he tried to deviate from the Hamilton set up iirc so it remains to be seen when he has to set up his own car. Reading between the lines, the set up of Ham’s car was probably mor race pace leaning, and it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s why Valterri is close on Saturday but often miles off on Sunday.

There is now a 2022 dedicated Mercedes discussion thread!

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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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wogx wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:18 pm
Hamilton will be at least number 1.5, if not number 2 Mercedes driver after 2022 season. George is unbelievably quick & fast adaptive, he was faster than Bottas since his first training in a Merc! Hamilton will be struggling in that competition, unfortunately... Post-COVID LH44 is not the same GOAT :(
I'm a Russell fan and do believe he can be the best, but, at least for a while, I also believe that even if Hamilton and Russell are exactly matched as drivers Hamilton will still win most of the time.

This will probably change race by race as Russell gets more experience at the sharp end and Hamilton's age catches up with him, but it will not be this season.

The first thing Russell has to do is get his temper under control or other drivers will use it against him. When do we hear outbursts off Ham, or see him 'have a go' at a driver he has just been involved with, even if it was bad.

I think Ham has to still be option one this year unless Russell is a full win clear of him (and the other way around too)
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adrianjordan
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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All this talk of Hamilton's age and its impact on his fitness makes me laugh.

Look at some other top sports people, in tennis, in endurance cycling and I am sure other sports, you have people still winning in their mid to late 30s.

Sports conditioning now is leaps and bounds ahead of even 10 years ago.

Hamilton can realistically expect to maintain his current level of fitness into his 40s. Yes, it might take more work and some more intense techniques, but there is absolutely no reason to think that, at 37, he is past his peak. At his peak yes, but past it? No.
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