2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Tizz wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:54 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:36 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:18 pm



Didn't change PUs
Neither did Albon or Gasly though when they moved up to RB, but it didn’t make it easy. Perez is making assumptions the struggle is more down to changing car and engine, than it is to drive a very specific car at RB. Every driver has a period of time adapting to a new car, there’s a challenge to change and adapt - normal. For me, Struggling is when it’s taking you so long or that you can’t get very competitive, and that the problem is bigger than change, it’s you. The reason Perez is even talking about this and coming out with this narrative, is because it’s taking him longer than his 5-race target to get very competitive with the RB, and he’s still struggling. If he thinks Max would struggle at Mercedes, that’s his opinion but I think it’s unfounded.
There really is no news , is there ? Toto's bloodpressure is still through the roof but we can't wait untill the start of next season when there is real news... :D
I don’t know, I think he’s calmed down now, but who knows.

Christian kept going on about taking other teams people through out the season only for the shoe to be on the other foot on this one. this whole going to court to retain control over fallows thing is indicative of how much they didn’t want him to leave just yet. Like that ex that won’t let go.image

it’s not just AM either, it’s Ferrari claiming they took some of RBR people to Maranello. I don’t know why Christian was behaving so boastful. I don’t recall any other teams sweating the people that left, Christians behaviour hasn’t aged well here.

Mercedes didn’t sweat those lower rung engine people going to red bull like this. I see why binotto found it obnoxious of CH.
Last edited by AeroDynamic on Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:44 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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ringo
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I think we are making more assumptions than Perez. Perez has observed Max up close and personal, so who are we to say? I believe Checo.

I am looking forward to this year. I see Checo as being a problem for the team if they want a wing man. He has paid his dues in 2021. He will start making demands.

Interesting to see Max as a WDC and if anything at all will change about him, like his motivation. The type of car that they make as well. Newey and ground effect.. a very lethal combo.
For Sure!!

billamend
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:06 am
I am looking forward to this year. I see Checo as being a problem for the team if they want a wing man. He has paid his dues in 2021. He will start making demands.
Good luck to him if he expects his demands to be met. First he'll be far off pace (compared to Max), and second RB will replace him quickly for someone who doesn't make those demands.

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ringo
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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You never can tell. We do not know if these newer cars can favour Checo's style or Max's. For sure Max is faster over a lap. Things are less clear with race pace between the two if both have the chance to drive a completely new car that was not biased to either. Anything can happen.
For Sure!!

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:14 am
You never can tell. We do not know if these newer cars can favour Checo's style or Max's. For sure Max is faster over a lap. Things are less clear with race pace between the two if both have the chance to drive a completely new car that was not biased to either. Anything can happen.
Hard to tell how it will play out. Expecting 2 to 3 10ths to separate the top 10. Maybe top 20. Gonna be hard sledding to recover from penalties.

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Ryar
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:14 am
You never can tell. We do not know if these newer cars can favour Checo's style or Max's. For sure Max is faster over a lap. Things are less clear with race pace between the two if both have the chance to drive a completely new car that was not biased to either. Anything can happen.
In fact, it was other way round. Max was far ahead in races than he was in quali most of the times. The hype was the same from a handful of people when Checo was signed by Red Bull that he would be "alpha" and will fight with Max. Look how that turned out and it would be naive to think the situation would change for Checo, just because the cars are going to be completely new.
Hakuna Matata!

Alexf1
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Ryar wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:09 am
ringo wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:14 am
You never can tell. We do not know if these newer cars can favour Checo's style or Max's. For sure Max is faster over a lap. Things are less clear with race pace between the two if both have the chance to drive a completely new car that was not biased to either. Anything can happen.
In fact, it was other way round. Max was far ahead in races than he was in quali most of the times. The hype was the same from a handful of people when Checo was signed by Red Bull that he would be "alpha" and will fight with Max. Look how that turned out and it would be naive to think the situation would change for Checo, just because the cars are going to be completely new.
When Max started testing race cars (FR end of 2013 and F3 in 2014) I remember that his VAR engineer comments were that on his first F3 test day with them Max showed a variety of driving styles when changing setup to find out what worked best. I think Max, much like Lewis, has such a broad band in his driving ability that he's able to extract the maximum from any type of car. This ability is very handy for F1 engineers to create the fastest possible car at the expense of drivability.

Mark Hughes did an article on the subject, nice read although I don't really agree it was really like that in this case (RB15 -> RB16), airflow disconnecting from car at turn in is not the drivers fault:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... ection-mph

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Ryar wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:09 am
ringo wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:14 am
You never can tell. We do not know if these newer cars can favour Checo's style or Max's. For sure Max is faster over a lap. Things are less clear with race pace between the two if both have the chance to drive a completely new car that was not biased to either. Anything can happen.
In fact, it was other way round. Max was far ahead in races than he was in quali most of the times. The hype was the same from a handful of people when Checo was signed by Red Bull that he would be "alpha" and will fight with Max. Look how that turned out and it would be naive to think the situation would change for Checo, just because the cars are going to be completely new.
You better hope Checo is close to Max this year, if he isn't, 3 10th in Quali might be the difference between 1st and 20th place.

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Ryar
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:19 pm
Ryar wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:09 am
ringo wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:14 am
You never can tell. We do not know if these newer cars can favour Checo's style or Max's. For sure Max is faster over a lap. Things are less clear with race pace between the two if both have the chance to drive a completely new car that was not biased to either. Anything can happen.
In fact, it was other way round. Max was far ahead in races than he was in quali most of the times. The hype was the same from a handful of people when Checo was signed by Red Bull that he would be "alpha" and will fight with Max. Look how that turned out and it would be naive to think the situation would change for Checo, just because the cars are going to be completely new.
You better hope Checo is close to Max this year, if he isn't, 3 10th in Quali might be the difference between 1st and 20th place.
If the gap from 1st to 20th is just 1 second and it remains so even in races, that would be great for the show. The only reason, as a Red Bull and Max fans, we hoped Checo should be closer to Max's pace was to ensure he can be factor in championship battle when it was only RB and Merc fighting at the front. If more teams are going to be a factor in 2022, then Checo's lack of pace would only hurt in WCC, not so much in WDC. From Max's perspective, that won't be such a big issue as he would have other drivers mixing in.
Hakuna Matata!

taperoo2k
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Ryar wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:09 am
ringo wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:14 am
You never can tell. We do not know if these newer cars can favour Checo's style or Max's. For sure Max is faster over a lap. Things are less clear with race pace between the two if both have the chance to drive a completely new car that was not biased to either. Anything can happen.
In fact, it was other way round. Max was far ahead in races than he was in quali most of the times. The hype was the same from a handful of people when Checo was signed by Red Bull that he would be "alpha" and will fight with Max. Look how that turned out and it would be naive to think the situation would change for Checo, just because the cars are going to be completely new.
It takes time to bed into a new team and learn how they do things. Checo was always going to find himself on the back foot compared to Max whose been with the team for years. As far as the new cars go ? I think we'll see a mix of drivers struggling to get to grips with them, while others will be on it from the get go. I expect Max will be one of the drivers who gets to grips with the cars quickly.

Anyway I think Checo will have a good idea of how far he can push things before Marko tells him to do as he's told or else. If Max does struggle with the car and Checo doesn't ? I'd expect Red Bull to be pragmatic about it, winning is all that matters to the team. What the new cars will do is reset the cars, so at least initially they won't favour one driver over the other until the teams get to grips with the rules to extract performance.

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Ryar wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:10 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:19 pm
Ryar wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:09 am
In fact, it was other way round. Max was far ahead in races than he was in quali most of the times. The hype was the same from a handful of people when Checo was signed by Red Bull that he would be "alpha" and will fight with Max. Look how that turned out and it would be naive to think the situation would change for Checo, just because the cars are going to be completely new.
You better hope Checo is close to Max this year, if he isn't, 3 10th in Quali might be the difference between 1st and 20th place.
If the gap from 1st to 20th is just 1 second and it remains so even in races, that would be great for the show. The only reason, as a Red Bull and Max fans, we hoped Checo should be closer to Max's pace was to ensure he can be factor in championship battle when it was only RB and Merc fighting at the front. If more teams are going to be a factor in 2022, then Checo's lack of pace would only hurt in WCC, not so much in WDC. From Max's perspective, that won't be such a big issue as he would have other drivers mixing in.


We are talking over a single lap. Typically in race pace the cars are always closer(over a single lap) than they are in quali.

Won't help Max if 2 of those drivers are driving a silver Car, a Red car or a Orange car. Arguably teams that all have very good line ups.

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Ryar
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:11 pm
Ryar wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:10 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:19 pm


You better hope Checo is close to Max this year, if he isn't, 3 10th in Quali might be the difference between 1st and 20th place.
If the gap from 1st to 20th is just 1 second and it remains so even in races, that would be great for the show. The only reason, as a Red Bull and Max fans, we hoped Checo should be closer to Max's pace was to ensure he can be factor in championship battle when it was only RB and Merc fighting at the front. If more teams are going to be a factor in 2022, then Checo's lack of pace would only hurt in WCC, not so much in WDC. From Max's perspective, that won't be such a big issue as he would have other drivers mixing in.


We are talking over a single lap. Typically in race pace the cars are always closer(over a single lap) than they are in quali.

Won't help Max if 2 of those drivers are driving a silver Car, a Red car or a Orange car. Arguably teams that all have very good line ups.
Look at the problems that other "2 car" teams would have to deal with. They can't play strategy game if both are contenders, as one can't be sacrificed for the other as both are equals, leaving a handicap. Assuming, RB would become a natural "one car" team would allow pulling strategies for one driver and can use Checo as a blocker, as they have done so far, which others can't do. IMO, having 2 closely matched drivers help when there are only two teams fighting. When there are more than 2 teams, it's a headache.
Hakuna Matata!

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Its going to be interesting to watch.. the dynamic ;)

the advantage of 1 lead driver means he always bags the maximum points available. The disadvantage is the strategy, 2 very strong drivers in another competitive car can always push him out of wins on the better days, and on the worse days, he could be pushed down to 3rd places.

conversely, two competitive drivers in a rival team could take each other out. They can also weaken the grapple of a single lead driver securing maximum WDC points every weekend.

Max can make the latter work but he will need to avoid incidents like he did in Monza and Silverstone, as that will help 1 of the two strong drivers in a rival team such as Ferrari or Mercedes.

In reality, Checo doesn't stand much chance. Even if he becomes very competitive, Red Bull will always prioritise Max. If he wants to change that, he has to start beating Max regularly. HAHAA-that Aint gonna happen riding along with verstappen

Kingshark
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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According to Franco Nugnes, both Mercedes and Ferrari have already recovered the horsepower loss from the E10 fuel.

Meanwhile, according to Marko, Honda hasn’t recovered the loss of power yet.

Mercedes already had 15 horsepower on Honda last season. If Max wants any realistic shot at the title, Red Bull cannot allow that gap to get any larger.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Kingshark wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:49 pm
According to Franco Nugnes, both Mercedes and Ferrari have already recovered the horsepower loss from the E10 fuel.

Meanwhile, according to Marko, Honda hasn’t recovered the loss of power yet.

Mercedes already had 15 horsepower on Honda last season. If Max wants any realistic shot at the title, Red Bull cannot allow that gap to get any larger.
Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this. ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas? Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to develop such a phenomenal engine last season. Only way their capability could be undermined is if the rumour ever turned out to be true that some Mercedes HPP knowledge leaked their way. Assuming it isn’t that, most likely for me, it’s Honda’s commitment - they left. The infrastructure of their spending, R&D etc must have wound down? RBR is in a transitional stage in reconstructing an Powertrains group as well. So, it’s not a surprise that this may have bottlenecked development pace on the engine.